Coolest Person in the Room: Vivian Wilson

Joan Summers, Senior Editor: Just set the stage for us. Do you know each other? You’re both chronically online in your own way.

Kay Poyer: I know you from everywhere. You’re hard to miss.

I'm trying my best.

I've been aware of you for a minute now, for sure.

I feel like we're on mostly in the same corner of the internet, to be honest.

We’re on planes that exist and intersect in many places, I would say.

Being chronically online to me means being able to get references that require eight levels of context that no one should be able to understand. I can recite CupcakKe remixes... I should probably not be admitting this on the record.

Was it like that when you were a kid? Were you super online like that too?

I wasn't super tapped into social media, so not necessarily, but I watched a lot of YouTube. I didn't really use any social media until TikTok in 2018. I was not really on social media… But we don't have to talk about that.

I wasn't allowed to have social media as a kid, which back then, I remember I made my first Instagram when I was 18. I would add people that I was meeting out and about on Instagram, and it was genuinely a face crack every time it was "joined two months ago, zero followers." It freaked people out and it pissed me off back then, but now I'm really thankful. Every once in a while, I feel like I piss somebody off, and the search results on my video are clearly people trying to look for dirt on me, and I'm like, there's nothing. The record starts and stops here.

I used a pseudonym and I never showed my face. No, I did show my face, maybe. I'm sure there's a digital footprint out there somewhere.

I did have a crazy Tumblr growing up, but it was never original posts. It was just memes, you know what I mean? And good ones. I think they were good? They were all very PC. I was a good little kid on Tumblr.

I was also very PC. The PC principal from South Park. I feel like a lot of people are scared that their digital footprint will come out and they'll be canceled because they said something insensitive. If my digital footprint comes out, I am going to be clowned on, it'll be iconic. So I'm kind of waiting for the day, because younger me was on some shit.

I feel the same. They're literally just going to find out I used to be Steven Universe down. I was a crazy Steven Universe kid. That's all it is.

I was just this blonde, little fem boy. I don't fucking know. That's already embarrassing. And those pictures are already on the internet, so I don't care much. If people find my digital footprints, they are going to be like, oh, she is cringe. I think you already know that about me, though, so I'm not too scared.

I feel like there is a weird, double-sided thing being a trans girl on the internet, where it's kind of expected that you were a dweeb at some point. You know what I mean? But then you get a pass for it, because you’re a diva now. As we're talking about this, I'm remembering the exact moment that I became aware of you. I feel like it was literally just one of your Instagram posts that everybody freaked the fuck out about because I had never seen you before, and I was like, oh, she's cunt.

Do you remember which?

No, it was literally just like you with the hair and I was like, hair down to her ass. Of course, of course, she’s a princess. [...] I'm also curious: I heard a quote from you, where you said you don't like using the word famous to describe yourself because you want to do something bigger, to use that word. I'm curious what that would be?

I don't know. I think I have to achieve other worldly levels of cunt, and right now I'm on worldly levels of cunt. Then I will be able to call myself famous.

What are otherworldly levels of cunt to you?

Otherworldy levels of cunt to me is Sasha Colby. Or, I don't know, Kim Petras. I don't know if I want to be Kim Petras levels of famous. I guess I kind of am.

I think it's also hard to wait for yourself, though.

I don’t know how popular or famous I am, because if I turn off my phone…

I imagine you get interactions in public.

People come up to me all the time, but I find it very sweet and it raises my ego just a tad, so I don't mind. Everyone's very sweet. Fun story. I went to [University of California Riverside] because they had me do a talk there. Everyone was so lovely. Everyone was super sweet, and I got fan drawings, and that was so amazing, so cute, and they did such a good job. It completely warmed my heart up like a toaster.

Maybe I'm evil, but I've had some fan drawings. It does not happen a lot. There's been one or two times that it's happened, and I've been like, you made my nose really fucking big. And it is big, but it's not that big. And I kept those thoughts inside until now, but then I come back to it later and I'm like, no, it's still cute. I feel like it's also probably the healthiest thing not to try to gauge [fame] for yourself too much, or to think about it too much. You know what I mean?

I think that's definitely for the best. I feel like that's so self-centered, and I don't want to be like that. I don't get the appeal of being like, oh my god, wow, I'm so famous and popular and pretty, even though I'm not really. I am a giant clusterfuck. My main hobby currently is unfortunately playing League of Legends. It does not matter who you are, who you pretend to be, what you have done up until this point. On that rift, you are going to face pain. It's a painful, masochistic experience, and I play it all the time because I hate myself.

This is what I've heard literally from every League of Legends player. I have never heard one of you describe it as enjoyable or fun at all. Never. It's an abusive relationship that you’re clinging to, it seems.

I called it gambling with your happiness, because when you cue up, for the next 30 minutes, you're either going to feel like God or you have never mattered once in your entire existence.

How long have you been playing?

I don't know, on and off for four years. Whatever, time is relative, who cares?

My parents were young. They were cool and nerdy and atheist, and they got me playing World of Warcraft when I was six years old, and I remember I died in the first two minutes I was playing the game and I cried. I had an emotional attachment to WoW growing up, and that was kind of where the nerdiness started for me.

What are we talking about? I am delirious as fuck. I will fully admit I have been sick lately.

Who got you sick? Who's the culprit? Who do we have to arrest?

Probably all the… I can't say that.

We can say it.

It’s from the vaping… and the cigarettes.

I thought you were going to say something way worse than that. I thought you were going to be like: “All the trade.”

Oh, the trade? No, no, girl. The cigarettes.

We're getting sidetracked. Girl, you're sick. I'm hungover. It's a mess.

That's actually tea, about partying.

I'm curious, what has that been like for you, partying?

I'm not going to lie. I actually have a very low social battery. I go out sometimes, and I'll stay until, I dunno, 2:00 AM. It's not a lot for most people, but that's stretching it for me because I am very much a homebody. I can go to the club, spend $40 on an Uber, $40 on three vodkas, if that, probably more than $40, or I can buy a $10 bottle of wine and drink wine with my roommates and watch TV. I usually tend to go for the latter option, but I will go out every now and then. Especially to drag shows.

Who was it you were doing a Squidward drag number with? I saw that recently.

That is my bestie. Liam Krug. We've done two drag shows so far, and we are definitely doing more in the future. You wouldn't think it's true, because it's Cali and everyone seems like they're five seconds away from killing each other on any given day with the facade of happiness… but everyone here is genuinely nice and genuinely supportive, even when I look chopped as fuck.

I kind of want more chopped drag.

I think we need to bring back chopped drag. I don't think every single time you step out on stage at a bar, you should be expected to wear a designer outfit.

I'm tired of a “looks queen.” I'm over it. Do you have a drag name?

My drag name is just Vivllainous, which is what I go by online. I thought about getting a new one, so I put up a poll on my Instagram story, and they were like, no, just keep it. Why would you change it?

Brand consistency!

PAPER: Both of you are, in your own ways, put on a pedestal by your community, by the internet, just by the nature of who you are. How do you deal with that?

I mean, I kind of chose it for myself at this point. If I wanted to stop, I would've stopped by now, but I don't know. It's pretty fun, I can't lie. It took me a bit to get used to, but it's pretty fun, I guess. What was the question?

How do you handle being in that position?

Oh, how do I handle being in this position? I guess I don't. I'm pretty much as unhinged as I used to be. It's a lot of stress. There's a lot of eyes on you, and I get stage fright quite a bit, but you just have to get a grip and move on.

There is something I've been curious about you, and it's kind of like an intense question if that's okay.

Sure.

I feel like for everyone that exists on the internet, or exists publicly, there's one or two things that everyone becomes really known for. I will have people walk up to me in public and quote my most popular video, in which I say, I don't shave my pussy. And people will say that to me in public, and sometimes it's happened on dates, and I'm like, oh, I'm here with a guy.

If we're talking about navigating dating, I don't use any dating apps anymore. I quit.

Are you completely done?

Done. No dating apps, because the risk of a digital footprint is too high. And the chance that if someone's swiping on me, I don't know why they're swiping on me.

Are you interested in dating at all, or is that kind of done?

Here's the thing. The answer is not no, but the answer is: I just don't care enough, I guess. Am I interested? No. Would I potentially date someone? Potentially. Maybe.

So if it happens, it happens. Is that where we're at?

Yeah. But I doubt it will, and I don't really care regardless.

Sure. You've got other shit on the table, you're busy. My question though is: I do feel like one of the big things that gets attached to you is your family, and I feel like I remember reading a lot about the specific nature of you transitioning in that relationship, and it's kind of a lot! It's very similar to how things went down with my parents. I think it was very interesting that you said, I want to do something bigger before I describe myself that way. Does that ever bother you, when you have to be mentioned in the same sentence all the time?

Does it bother me? I don't know. I don't know if anything bothers me, especially after the last few days. Listen… Oh, I can't say that. I definitely can't say that. Okay, hold on. I'm trying to think.

We have a lot of redacted, a lot of beeping.

[Thinking] …I can't say that either, because I'm going to get sued.

Let's not get sued.

Let’s not get sued. Okay. Does it bother me? I mean, yes, but ultimately it's kind of just the truth of the situation, so who cares? I mean, it can only bother you as much as you let it, so you just have to get a grip and move on... I should not be a therapist. Oh my God. My advice is terrible.

It does seem like your whole philosophy revolves around getting a grip at any given moment. If it works, it works. Just keep it pushing.

Well, the horrors persist, but we are everlasting.

Absolutely—

—and I wasn’t in the Epstein files!

…Well, good!

I couldn't help it!

PAPER: Even regardless of family circumstance, it can be very difficult and challenging to be in the world right now as trans people. What do you do to just, like you said, get a grip?

I play League of Legends and get severely humbled, or I watch reality TV and I have a little sketchbook and do still life drawings of things in my house. I'm very much a homebody

I feel like for me, it is honestly the partying. I love hosting the raves and the club night. That's where most of the inspiration for my writing comes from. I'm kind of getting tired of being on social media. I want to transition out of it.

I think I get that. I have been doing social media less frequently because I have been focusing on my modeling career, which I am thankful for and very blessed to have.

If you could live in a video game, which one would you be? Kay, I used to love your Skyrim videos.

I feel like all video games are defined by their tragedy, so I don't know about that one.

I would have a little Stardew Valley farm. I would do that.

I don't want to live on a farm. Being rural does not agree with me.

She's a city girl.

I am. There has to be things near me, and I do bad when bugs do not agree with me. Altitude does not agree with me. Dust does not agree with me. None of this agrees with me, and I do not like dirt. God, I cannot be outside for more than five minutes at a time.

That's real. Most of my family grew up fishing and shit, so I feel like there's another life where I could be a little farm trainee. You know what I mean? Going fishing and fighting in the mines.

I could never. Okay, so what's a video game that is not defined by pain and suffering

Or labor outdoors?

Or labor outdoors.

We could do Wizards 101.

Do they have phones?

I don't think they do. They're in Wizard School.

Oh, I'm good. I don't have much of a fondness for Wizard School.

Vivian is not living in a video game, is what I'm taking from this.

I need to answer the question. I just can't think of anything, all the answers are terrible.

I feel like you could be an NPC though. I am not going to lie to you guys. When I would play Skyrim, there was this mod where you could just get a farm and run the farm and just sell things from the farm.

Get a farm!

Maybe I should get a farm. See, but I wouldn't like it in real life. I wouldn't want to actually do the work at all. But in my head, this is a fantasy that I’m clinging to.

What game is not just pain and suffering. That's what I'm trying to think.

What's that Roblox runway game? You could do that.

I would live in Dress to Impress. It's kind of horrifying though… I could get behind that.

That's a good answer. I'm going to keep mine, and you're letting 12 year olds figure outfits out, which sounds like it would stress me the fuck out. You know what I mean?

But they have phones and air conditioning and clothes and motor technology. And they have Charlie xcx in that game!

It's a good answer. Are you looking forward to fashion month?

Am I looking forward to fashion month? I am looking forward to when fashion month is over and I'm done with it. It’s very daunting and stressful and exciting at the same time, but mostly daunting. I like my job. I feel like I'm decent at my job, so I'm very blessed. I really like all the people that I've been blessed to work with. This is such a pageant queen fucking answer, but whatever. It's true. To be able to work with a bunch of talented people, like the hairstylists and makeup artists and photographers and directors, it's been wonderful. I've been able to meet a lot of very interesting and cool people, and I can pay my rent through this, which is lovely. So I have no complaints.

Do you like the runway or the editorial shoot stuff more?

I prefer photo shoots

I'm getting better about photo shoots, but I'm also not a model. It's literally your job.

Runway is fun. It is also 10, 20 times more stressful, in my opinion.

I will say, I remember looking at that dress they had you in—

—the metal cage. Girl.

Nuts. But it was chic. It was a fantasy. I lived.

People were mad I couldn't walk in that dress, and I was like, bitch, it is a metal cage, bitch!

You come and walk in it! I was like, why are we reading her for this? This is a nuts outfit. This is crazy.

It was a movie. It was a day. I walked down that runway for, I want to say a minute and a half, and it felt like three hours.

Is there anyone that you haven't gotten to work with, or walk for yet, that you'd really like to?

My dream is Schiaparelli, but I want to have a little bit more experience under my belt before I do potentially do that. I have work to do to get there, I think.

Are you more of a vintage girl? Are you a thrift store girl?

I’m a thrift store girl. Wonderful things in the thrift store.

What's been your most recent find that you've been really excited about?

I got really comfortable pajama pants. They don't look good, but they're very comfortable. I appreciate it. I got them for $8.

Love. I've been running back through the little t-shirt section recently. I just got this smiley face t-shirt, and I was like, yeah, I need to go back to the little boys section now that I have the titties. So that's been my thing recently, just in there for an hour, sifting through toddler shirts, looking for something to stretch out.

I'm glad we finally got to intersect. You are so funny.

Well, hopefully we'll have to party or something together sometime soon. Next time I'm out in LA.

Are you based in LA?

I am in Texas right now, and I'm moving to New York mid-March.

Good job moving out of Texas.

It's about fucking time. I'm going to be broke when I do it, but you got to do what you got to do.

[New York City] is cold as fuck. I could not handle it.

Well, that's why I'm going at the beginning of spring. I wanted to miss their winter in February

It overlaps. So even if you go in the spring, you still have to experience the winters later on.

Sure. But I've got time to prepare. I've got time to get my black puffer coat.

You're going to get a puffer coat?

I'm going to get a puffer coat! I'll serve down in a puffer coat, for sure.

Down!

Photography by Diego Villagra Motta
Styling by Angelina Cantú
Interview by Kay Poyer

Makeup artist: Christopher Cabral
Hair artist: Ryann Carter
Lighting designer: Angelina Cantú
Styling assistants Joyce Esquenazi Mitrani, Quinn Tommy Herbert, Ally Donofrio

Hair artist assistant: Aidan Rodriguez
Photo assistant Xandra Hafferman

Executive Creative Producer: Angelina Cantú
Senior Editor: Joan Summers

Chief Creative Officer: Brian Calle
Executive Creative Director: Jordan Bradfield

Location: SoMad NYC