Lucy Dacus on Deluxe Feelings, Queer Vows and Janelle Monáe

Lucy Dacus’Lucy Dacus’ music has always had an underlying vulnerability — even her first hit “Night Shift” started with the tangible description of pushing yourself to move on after a relationship (i.e. “The first time I tasted somebody else’s spit I had a coughing fit.”) Still, the characters in her previous releases — like 2018’s Historian and 2021’s Home Video — stayed on the page, like past chapters of a past life, studied from a place of hindsight, somewhat healed, perspective 20/20.

But with Forever Is a Feeling, released this March, Dacus gets right into the thick of it, sharing portions of her story in real time. “I feel like I’m getting closer to the heart,” she says of her latest release. “Which is cool in one way, but it’s also more sensitive. I need to figure out how to feel differently because sometimes I wonder, ‘Why did I share all of this?’ It’s precious to me. But it’s probably worth it, ultimately. Sometimes it’s also kind of embarrassing, though, how much I’ve given away to complete strangers.’” She’s facetiming with PAPER, as she walks across streets in Manhattan, dodging traffic, but leaning into questions. Much like Forever Is a Feeling, and its deluxe companion, which was released earlier this month — her answers are approachable and profound, casual life-changing epiphanies, the kind Dacus has been dropping since the launch of her career: You don’t need to be a perfectionist when it comes to baring your soul,” she shares at one point. “Yes. 100% yes,” she says later when I ask if she really believes that PAPER's most recent cover star Janelle Monáemost recent cover star Janelle Monáe actually time-traveled to see David Bowie.

Forever is Feeling: The Archives features unreleased tracks from Dacus like “Losing,” a cover of Jim Croce’s “Time In A Bottle” as well as a new matrimony-laced version of “Best Guess,” and a live recording of her “Bulleseye” duet with Hozier.

Dacus knew she was going to release a companion to her album even before it was finished. “I was like, ‘If I want to hear another version of this, I’ll just do it on the [companion album]’” she says. “Like ‘Best Guess,’ doing it acoustic. I had always wondered if it was going to be nice more stripped down and it totally is. But I like the original album version, too. And for ‘Lost Time,’ I kept writing lyrics and I was like, ‘Maybe I’ll just hold those over time during the tour.’ I wrote 20 more lines to that song.’”

But back to the original release, it’s lush in fantasy romance, the kind you drum up in your brain when you’re in beyond deep — ”pull me by the ankles to the edge of the bed,” she smiles in “Ankles,” “You may not be an angel, but you are my girl,” she attest in “Best Guess,” “You’re a big deal,” she reiterate in “Big Deal.” It’s delicious and playful and warm and true, the type of lyricism that deserves an encore, which is why the deluxe makes perfect sense.

Below, we chat with Dacus about officiating queer weddings on Jimmy Kimmel Live, and why she believes Janelle Monáe met Bowie.

You’ve had a few album cycles of your own, as well as the Boygenius records before this one. How have you felt in the wake of Forever Is A Feeling? Has it felt different than past album cycles and in what ways?

I feel like I’m getting closer to the heart. Which is cool in one way, but it’s also more sensitive. I need to figure out how to feel differently because sometimes I wonder, Why did I share all of this? It’s precious to me. But it’s probably worth it, ultimately. Sometimes it’s also kind of embarrassing, though, how much I’ve given away to complete strangers.

I can totally understand that. Sometimes I write articles and then remember people can read them. People will bring up things I wrote, and I’ll be like, “Oh, people weren’t supposed to see that.”

I admire that, and I’m glad that while I’m writing, I don’t think of others. Because if I were, I wouldn’t start. It would be a nonstarter. I cannot be thinking about other people while I’m writing.

When you brought up this time period and emotion, a question came to mind. The vulnerability and sensibility you have on full display... how do you manage that? Being the most authentic version of yourself while keeping certain parts private. How do you find the balance?

Authenticity doesn’t necessarily mean the truth. The same way being honest doesn’t mean the truth. Fiction has a lot of honesty even though there are no facts involved in it. Saying things factually doesn’t equal authenticity or vulnerability. And there are plenty of musicians with personas that feel very authentic. I see some people who are writing diaristically, and you’re supposed to think they’re being honest, but it doesn’t feel like it.

How do I stay authentic? There are whole subject matters that I’ve never touched and whole relationships that I’ve never put into words. Either because I’m not brave enough or because it’s not for other people to know about. I think you don’t need to be a perfectionist when it comes to baring your soul. The whole thing is probably too much to communicate anyway. So much of making art is finding where the edges of the frame are. Whether it’s fine art or a word count or however long the song is. You have to finish it at some point. Getting in touch with where your self-expression stops is pretty powerful. Everyone talks about the power of expressing yourself, but going quiet again is its own accomplishment.

That’s so good. We could honestly stop this there. The idea that you don’t have to bare your soul to completion is great. Let’s get back to now. What made you decide to share this companion album? When it comes to your songwriting, do you have a backlog of unreleased songs? Were they intended for the original album?

It’s been interesting because I’ve known in my heart about this part of it before I even finished the first album. It helped me finish the first album. I was like, “If I want to hear another version of this, I’ll just do it on the next one.” Like “Best Guess,” doing it acoustic. I had always wondered if it was going to be nice more stripped down. And it totally is. But I like the original album version, too. And for “Lost Time,” I kept writing lyrics and I was like, “Maybe I’ll just hold those over time during the tour.” I wrote 20 more lines to that song. I would play a few of them at different shows. It was funny, because people thought they knew the words and they’d be headbanging along and then go completely cold. They didn’t know what it was. It was a rip in their reality. There’s a song called “Losing,” which is a totally new song that I wrote a couple days before recording it. It always feels good to get out a really recent thought. That song is a reaction to this year, honestly, and just feeling like I’d be more comfortable if my life was much smaller. If I said goodbye to everything that I have and everyone that I love. But that’s me in a bad state of mind.

I think you don’t need to be a perfectionist when it comes to baring your soul.

But it’s okay, because you put it in the song.

I put it in the song! It’s only one aspect. One song can express one thing, but it can’t express a whole person.

I’m also curious. Maybe this is an oversimplification, but when you’re in these headspaces and creating the music, then putting it in front of people and having the realization that people are going to consume it ... how do you comprehend them having their own thoughts on it? What drives you to keep going when you know things might not be interpreted the way you had thought of them?

It doesn’t feel like a choice. There are a lot of elements that encourage me and keep me interested. I think about rotation prep and farming your mind. I’ve been doing music for a long time. There’s other things that are interesting to me, but I keep doing music. I still love it. I’ve been getting excited each time because it will always be different. If I did the same thing every time, it would become quite boring like I was in a factory or something.

I enjoy most parts of it, too. I enjoy writing. I enjoy recording, even though it can feel like an insane task sometimes. I enjoy thinking about all the art. I really enjoy touring. I love my band and playing shows. That's tiring as well. But on the list of jobs, it's close to the top. There's not really one thing about it. Even the press, depending on the person, sometimes you get people who are not authentic. That question of authenticity applies to every field and person. When you meet people who are authentically interested in what they’re doing, you can’t help but meet them where they are, and I feel lucky to have had experiences like that. I’m happy to be here.

I’ve tried to be very intentional about focusing on the softer and sweeter, but still resistance-oriented things

I want to ask about “Best Guess.” I know there’s a wedding version on the companion album, but you also did it on Jimmy Kimmel, which was really great. He had just had the show cancelled for what I believe was an issue of freedom of speech, and then your performance exemplified some of the rights that these people are toying with and fucking with. What was that like for you? Bringing that tradition you’ve had at your shows to the world’s stage in that way.

It felt really exciting because it’s such a direct and positive way to fly in the face of fearmongering. I did 154 weddings, that’s over 300 people. They were so sweet and so real. Having to sign all the documents and learning each couple’s story. It was a really rich experience that I never anticipated doing in my life. But it was a nightly miracle that people wanted to do it and my management team was able to coordinate each day. Like, where do you drop off the marriage licenses? It was a group effort for sure.

Doing it on Kimmel was different because my crowd is people who generally agree with my politics. Sometimes I don’t know the impact I’m making. But people who watch Kimmel are from all over the country and may have never planned on going to a gay wedding. Maybe they would have protested it. It was a soft entry for them. I’ve also been thinking about how there’s a lot to be outraged about. And that’s what goes to the top: the anger and aggression. Through this whole thing, I’ve tried to be very intentional about focusing on the softer and sweeter, but still resistance-oriented things. It feels more like an invitation instead of scolding people. I wanted it to be an opportunity where people felt invited to feel joy and excitement for the people they usually wouldn’t.

Before we go, I know there’s a vinyl version coming out in December. You have some shows coming up. But what is this next era going to look like for you? Are you heading back to the studio? Are you doing more writing? Are you going to relax and enjoy the fruit of Forever Is A Feeling and what it’s created?

I never stop writing. To me, “next era” is only about what's seen by others. But I guess the next era of my life is going to go back to me. I’m just going to be cooking, literally at my home. You have to live a life worth writing about. If you focus too much on what you’ve already said and then spend time reiterating, it doesn’t leave time in the day for new things to get to you. I also want to learn more skills. I think I rely on a lot of people in the studio. I know what I want but I have to explain it. I want to do it myself. That’s the goal.

I love it. I have one more question. Do you really think Janelle Monáe time-traveled to see Bowie?

Yes. 100% yes. They’re so brilliant and their mind has already gone places that I couldn’t have imagined. Why not? The internet is so crazy. People thought my face was looking funny listening to her say that. But imagine your friend saying it. I looked surprised, but it took me 10 seconds to lock in and be like, “Yeah, this is Janelle Monáe talking.” Of course. If anyone could do it. And the way that experience affected them affected all of us, so why question it?

Photography: Shervin Lainez