The light of Kesha’s joy radiates over the phone between studio sessions and dance practice for Lollapalooza: “I’m living the dream!”
The newly independent pop savant is deep into work on her upcoming album and tells PAPER the new stuff is “the best songs, I think, of my entire career.” There is an indelible air of lightness to her voice, radiating the aforementioned joy that seeps into everything we talk about. After the many ups and downs she’s experienced in the last decade — the fear and success and trauma and self-discovery — Kesha has at last arrived at an all-consuming sense of joy: for life, for art, for her collaborators, for her fans and career and more. “That feels really good, just to step into my own worth and my own power, and not have anything in my mind or the external world say it's anything but me.” She pauses and her voice firms. “It’s pretty unavoidable that whether people like or hate 'Joyride,' it’s all me."
Considering the new single's overwhelming success on TikTok and social media, they do. Don’t forget the charts either, with “Joyride” ranking on Billboard’s Hot Dance/Electronic Songs and Dance/Electronic Streaming Songs charts, sitting at No. 6 and No. 4, respectively — to name just a few other examples of the success of the track. She speaks with total certainty about this new era and song specifically: “The second it came out of my mouth, and we recorded it, as I was singing it, I was like, this is the first thing.”
Kesha remains tight-lipped when pressed on the shape of the project to come, although she teases that we haven’t seen anything yet: “It feels divine, it feels like it stands for a lot. It’s really beautiful, and I cannot wait to share it. It's maybe the most beautiful time of my entire life!” There’s perhaps no better time for it then, the entire industry poised for pop music that seems delivered straight from heaven. Or, at the very least, a pop star’s heart. Between the rise of breakouts like Chappell Roan to the totally-deserved, totally unexpected success of Tinashe’s “Nasty,” we seem to be in a time of re-evaluation with pop music. A changing of the tides, a shifting of audience perception, and also of needs (the title of another great Tinashe song.) “I’ve definitely gotten pigeonholed, and have spent a career trying to prove that I can sing," she says. "It feels really good. Like the past two weeks, all of a sudden, the perspective has shifted.”
It's important to note that this is who she’s always been, no matter the shifting currents of the industry or her personal life. “I think it’s a beautiful thing to feel seen, I think humans like feeling seen. I’m finally starting to feel seen in the balanced way I’ve always been, the person I’ve always been," she says. She talks about the same sentiment in her recent TED Talk, about the power of honesty — of joy — in her music. “Much like you were saying, that the public has come around to see value in pop, I feel like I’ve just embraced my true love of pop songs," she says.
Read PAPER's full conversation with Kesha about her newly independent era below.
“Joyride” is so good. You must know it's a total hit by now. I was in the club last weekend and everyone went up!
I haven’t seen people go off in the wild yet! That’s an exciting thing, to see it go off.
We must have all been listening to it and watching various fancams of it all week, and people just exploded. It was fun.
This is great news! I mean, in my brain, when I wrote the song, I couldn’t sleep that night. Because I was like, oh my god, it’s a hit! In my brain! I just kept playing it, and driving around playing it, it’s so fun. It’s a way for me to channel pure joy and excitement. Sometimes I’ll just put it on if I’m having a day. I’ll put it on, and it’s like magic. I get really excited. I feel like music is magical like that.
I’ll date myself: When Animal came out, I was in high school, and it’s the same thing you’re describing. That album just tickled a part of the brain, the pleasure center. Probably feels like what "Joyride" is doing right now, too.
This is the first time in my life I’ve felt similarly to how I did in that point in my life, when I was making music from a purely joyful place. But you know, because of life, this is even more exciting, because it’s all really 100% me. That feels really good, just to step into my own worth, and my own power and not have anything in my mind or the external world say it's anything but me. It’s pretty unavoidable that whether people like or hate “Joyride,” it’s all me.
It coincides with your entrance into the music world as a truly independent artist. Did that feel special at all, that it was this song of all the songs that you could have released at this moment?
The second it came out of my mouth, and we recorded it, as I was singing it, I was like, this is the first thing.
I was going to ask — reclaiming feels like a cheap word in context, but the sound you became known for in your early career is all over “Joyride.” Does it feel like you didn’t necessarily reclaim that sound, but maybe reinvented it for yourself?
It’s who I’ve always been when I’m not in fear! I’m a very joyful person. I even found out the origin of my name, which I have never read before: It’s "innocent joy."
I was like, holy shit! People go through stuff, and it clouds your truest nature. My truest nature is being really joyful, and in a very innocent way. People think I’m quite naughty, and I have my moments, but my natural state is joy. So this song being the first song on my label that I wrote — it’s really significant. It’s definitely me stepping into my joy in a really beautiful way. I feel it in my body.
There is this conversation about pop right now, where I feel audiences have had a pretty cynical relationship to pop music, but now, there’s a renaissance of earnestness. Whether it’s “Brat summer” or all these different things, pop stars are having a moment of re-evaluation. Have you felt that at all?
I do! I think there’s a part of me that can’t help but think that people can feel cynical towards joy when we’re going through something very hard. Seems like a guilty pleasure, or frivolous, or it’s just not the most important thing. But then, when you are actually in moments of joy, you realize that joy might be one of the main purposes of life. I feel like pop music, all those girls you mentioned, Chappell, Sabrina, Charli, it’s a really beautiful thing to be in your power. I think we’re now just going to be in our joy.
I want to give credit where it’s due, because reading these tweets from different writers and fans, it feels like this summer is also where maybe maligned, or misunderstood, pop girls get re-evaluated as well. You spearheaded that conversation, I feel.
I mean, it’s all so interesting because I’ve said this before: people are an infinite number of things. Once you release a song as one of those emotions, you become labeled as that emotion. But in reality, we all relate to the human emotion behind whatever that song is. I’ve definitely gotten pigeonholed and have spent a career trying to prove that I can sing. It feels really good. Like the past two weeks, all of the sudden, the perspective has shifted. To release a song like Joyride, do a TED talk, in the same week? I feel like that’s a true representation of the person I am. I’m really excited for the world to finally see me. I think it’s a beautiful thing to feel seen, I think humans like feeling seen. I’m finally starting to feel seen in the balanced way I’ve always been, the person I’ve always been.
You said in Forbes that your own identity, or the sense of irony, the tongue-in-cheek quality, and these layers of your music all went over people’s heads. Maybe it feels like that’s changed recently. Do you know what you feel has changed, or do you think it’s just putting in the work for over a decade to change it?
I think sometimes, it takes time. Like with people, I’m single and I’m dating, and I’m realizing it just takes time to get to know a person. Maybe the world is just finally... it only took 15 years to get to know me! That’s okay. It might just take time. But it does feel really good to feel like people see me and understand that humor and irony are a big part of my music. I put that in my music because I really like making people happy, and I love my live shows. I want a place for everybody to come and just like, be their weird self. Come to my shows and dress up however you want to. Play and joy are really important parts of humanity that I’m going to stand by. Sorry! People can get the wrong impression from that, from me, and that’s fine. But I’m not going to ever lose sight of my joy now. That is mine. It’s become my number one priority: protect my joy.
I saw you during that time, in high school, and I was just some young trans girl from the middle of nowhere in fucking California, and the concert did feel like a space for me and my freak friends to get away, express this part of ourselves we wanted to so badly. Listening to you talk, it’s interesting to look back to that time and realize just how much things have changed. How different the world feels now than in 2010, listening to pop music, taking the train in secret to see your favorite artist.
You’re such a sweetheart! I’m so happy to hear that and I’m happy to know that the world feels safer. I think that’s the fucking goal, right? That’s what we’re fighting for. That’s a beautiful thing. I don’t need any props for that, that’s how the whole world should feel and should have always felt.
In your TED Talk, and now, I’ve been hearing from you that people understanding you and finding the truth in yourself is important to you. You talk about how songwriting is also a direct line to the truth, too. I want to know, since you started writing pop music as an independent artist, what truths have you discovered?
Much like you were saying, that the public has come around to see value in pop, I feel like I’ve just embraced my true love of pop songs. I think through writing the album that I’m finishing right now, I just feel like every emotion is valid. Having strong emotions can be hard, just as a person to walk through this world, if you feel things intensely. Things are intense! And I love having a place to put all those emotions. It’s a really safe, wonderful place. At this point in my life I am surrounded by the best people to make music with, and to walk in and talk about some crazy emotions that I feel lonely for having. Then, I alchemize that into a song that others can relate to and not feel alone in. I appreciate this process so much. Through the past 20 years, I just realized the importance of having a safe space for me to create my art and then also for my fans to have when they come to my show.
I’ve been reading various interviews with you over the past few years, and it seems things like meditation, centering yourself, spirituality, have become really important to you. What else have you been doing to maintain your joy in everyday life besides songwriting?
I mean, the music never ends in my home. Not only mine! I’m talking about just good music that feels honest. I can’t stop listening to music. I’ll be up at like three in the morning, listening to people I find on TikTok, and people on Instagram. I also really try to look at the positive side of things, and feel really grateful for every little thing, even the hard stuff. I like to flip it around and be like, “Okay, what’s my lesson?” I am trying to treat life like it’s a big scavenger hunt. At the end, it’s like a treasure, the good things and the bad things are all just clues to where you’re going and what feels good.
That’s a really beautiful way of putting that.
It just makes life a little bit more fun. Then I sit down at night — it’s kind of corny — and I write down all the things that I’m so grateful for. It actually makes me realize I have pages and pages every night of things I am so grateful for. I just like to ground myself a bit, because life can be triggering as fuck. If I have a moment like that, I sit and I’m like, “Oh my god, no. Currently at this moment, I’m safe. I’m surrounded by awesome people. I’m making a sick album. Everything’s good.”
You mentioned listening to a lot of music. What have you been putting on while putting this album together?
Everything. I wake up in the morning and I turn on an Italo-disco playlist and pretend that I’m in Italy, on a boat, for a solid hour. Then I will lean over into Neil Young, Merle Haggard. Get some country in there. Chappell Roan is always the afternoon vibe. And Sabrina Carpenter.
With Chappell, I just think she’s a cool, magical spirit. I love it, I love seeing it. At nighttime, it depends on my mood, it depends on what kind of bitch I need to conjure up that night. That’s the power of pop music! It can help you get into an energy that you’re wanting to, so if I’m trying to be chill, put on chill music, and if I’m trying to turn up, put on turn-up music. That’s why music is so fucking magical.
We should get them on this album, maybe a remix?
I’m down to make art with rad people, let’s go.
I was just getting ready for this club event last week, and my friend put on guitar music while we were getting our makeup on. I was like, who listens to guitar music before the club! That’s not who we need to be right now!
It’s the soundtrack to the movie of your life. You absolutely cannot have the wrong soundtrack going.
You also talked about, in your TED Talk, how you channeled everything you felt at the time into “Praying.” Emotions that were big, scary and totally honest. Then the song was so successful and so well received. Did it feel like maybe the affirmation you got from that experience carried into songs like “Joyride” or the new album, to just be totally yourself?
How do I put this — that was a big, scary moment in my life personally and publicly. But I hold myself to the standard of being an artist that cannot be dishonest in my music. The song will be terrible, and you’re wasting not only your time, but the time of the people you’re working with. If you’re not honest, what is the point of writing a song? When it’s not art, it’s commerce. I’m not in the business of that. I’m an artist! To then release that into the world, I felt bare, and stripped back, and naked. I was so scared of the judgment. To have that be the first time I got nominated for Grammys, and I’m sitting next to Kendrick in the front row... I was like, "Shit! My theory about being honest in my art seems to be correct."
That did give me the confidence to really lean into what’s actually going on in my life. I make art. I’m an artist. I’m not in the business of commerce!
On this new project, can you give any teasers about what we can expect from it?
This is the first album I’m making where I’m 100% in control of everything. It feels like it’s my first album. It feels divine, it feels like it stands for a lot. It’s really beautiful, and I cannot wait to share it. It’s maybe the most beautiful time of my entire life! I am so excited, I got to work with the people I did and capture this moment in time, and put it onto something other people can listen to. It’s been deeply life-changing and profound to make this album, but it’s also the most fun I’ve ever had in my life. If you thought Animal was fun, just fucking wait.
That seems to be the mood these days. Pop music that’s also divine, a dance album from heaven in a way, maybe. You also have your new record label, Kesha Records. Have you started talking to other artists? Have you taken any demos?
I’m definitely looking! If people are interested, I have an Instagram handle. My animals would be very upset if I started doing that before the album comes out, so I’m going to finish my album. But, I’m up late at night, creepin’. I’m looking. If you’re reading this, I would love to see your art. I think art is the most magical, healing thing in the entire world. I want to help other people find purpose in making art, and I want to give them a safe space to create and play.
Photography: Brendan Walter
