Bethenny Frankel and Danielle Zaslavskya Queen Out on Caviar

Danielle Zaslavskya: I hated caviar, actually, when I was a kid. I thought it was disgusting, unlike my child. But my early memories were my grandfather bringing it home, even when we were living in Ukraine. It used to come in mason jars. But I didn't like it as a kid and then I grew up to like it as I got older. My grandma used to hide it in mashed potatoes.

Bethenny Frankel: What a waste of money. [Laughs] But I guess it’s good on everything. My daughter, we were at a friend's house years ago in Colorado, and I looked over and he had a big [caviar] tin for everybody. She started shoveling it in with a spoon, en masse. I was like, Oh my God. Sometimes there's been a lot of caviar [at home], and I look over and this little bitch is eating it. I'm like, “Hi!” She's 14 years old and she'll be like, “Mom, we have no vegetables in the house with tins of caviar. We don't have normal food.” We'll have, like, 40 cakes from places all over the country and caviar, but not cucumbers.

Danielle: Listen, good for her. [Laughs]

Bethenny: You mainstreamed [caviar]. I think it's become more of a condiment and that's why people are loving it, because people on social media love adding more shit to things. It's become this luxury accessory, and that's why people are understanding it more than just the traditional bellinis with eggs and capers.

Danielle: I also think because they know the price points are different. One of the reasons why I started sharing on TikTok a few years ago was because, if you did a general search back then, it was always associated with Ferraris, yachts, Michelin Star restaurants, hot girls — a very unattainable lifestyle. I don't think people knew you can get [caviar] at the grocery store. I don't even think people looked that way.

Bethenny: It's like drugstore beauty.

Danielle: Exactly. I don't even think all grocery stores had it available, but now it's everywhere.

Bethenny: I mean, I still think it's expensive. Whole Foods has [caviar], but a Publix or a King Kullen will maybe have Paddlefish.

Danielle: Or Hackleback.

Bethenny: Like wine, it's something that people really don't understand — like the hierarchy and different levels. But to be honest, as you know more than anyone, the least expensive is the most challenging to like. I love the super salty salmon roe or tobiko, but it's not for everybody. Like black licorice, I have really learned to love those inexpensive versions.

Danielle: Yeah, it's true. Paddlefish and Hackleback swim in the Mississippi River and they're classified as a Sturgeon, which is why they're least expensive. You’re right, they have a very briny, pungent, fishy taste that everybody hates. So I always say, if you can, save up for an Ossetra or Kaluga because it's a bit more mild in taste. A lot of people think there's just one type [of caviar].

Bethenny: Everybody thinks caviar is caviar. You go and just get caviar, which is like saying [the same for] wine or champagne. There's shitty champagne and there's good champagne, but a lot of it is marketing too. There are different brands of caviar and then you have to know who to trust. When I was growing up, it was Beluga, Ossetra, Sevruga. That was it, it was those three, and it was sort of like Hermes, Chanel and Prada.

Danielle: It still is that way, but in the early 2000s Beluga became extinct. In the Caspian Sea, you can't fish for it, it's blacklisted. So my grandfather was able to bring it over to the United States, which is called Broodstock. It's the original fish from the Caspian, which is the fish we harvest from. But it became extinct and once they banned it, you can't import it anymore. Obviously, in Europe you can still get it because people are poaching them, and doing it illegally and selling on the Black Market. But generally, you can't really find it. We have it because we keep reproducing it and we have a deal with the Federal Government that [my grandfather] made in the early 2000s, so we will be able to have it all the time.

Bethenny: Do you happen to like the more expensive caviar? Do you think the prices align with how it tastes for you? Honestly.

Danielle: Not necessarily. I like caviar for different reasons, but Beluga is so expensive because it takes the longest to harvest. Imagine if you have 100,000 Beluga eggs on your farm. You don't know if it's a female or male until they're about five to seven years old. So you're putting in five to seven years of labor to only find out that 10% of them are female. The farm, the food, the labor, everything, and then on top of that you can't harvest the Beluga for another 15 to 20 years. So that's why it's so expensive, because it takes so long to get to the finished product. Versus your Hackleback, Siberian Sturgeon, Paddlefish, those five to seven years you have your caviar.

Bethenny: So I really like White Sturgeon. That's a good mainstream caviar that is not cheap, but aspirational and not going to make you cringe at the price. What do you think about that?

Danielle: White Sturgeon is great, honestly. It's creamy, it's earthy, it's buttery, it's milky, it's not too briny, it's not too oceanic. I think it's perfect. That and Siberian Sturgeon, I always feel like is right in the middle. It's worth the money, it's not as expensive as everything else and it's delicious. It's still a product I get all the time. Now, when I bring [caviar] home, I base it off what I'm going to eat it with. So if I'm having friends over and I want to do bellinis or chips, I'll probably do Ossetra or Kaluga. I tend to do Kaluga more because it's not salty, it doesn't have that brine to it. It's the only freshwater Sturgeon.

Bethenny: You're saying that's going to be more mainstream for your guests?

Danielle: Yeah, it's a freshwater Sturgeon. It swims in the Amur River, which is between China and Russia, and it doesn't have any of the oceanic characteristics. If you're pairing it with chips, like Doritos, it's not overpowering in flavor and it's not too salty, so you can really play around with other things. When you're doing a beautiful baked potato, that's when I would use something that has more of a salty component. I'll do a White Sturgeon or a Siberian because it's creamy. You just have to think about what it is you're serving and what you're pairing it with.

Bethenny: You're saying that it's got a strong flavor, but it's being cut with all that potato, so it needs to be strong to fight through. What about the color? There’s the black color and that amber color. If someone sees that, does that mean anything to them?

Danielle: Amber colors usually means that it's going to be a bit more milky or creamy, and a bit more buttery. But usually the only ones that are really black are Beluga and Siberian Sturgeon. Sometimes White Sturgeon, but White Sturgeon tends to go on the gray side.

Bethenny: When you're talking about pop, you mean each individual caviar pearl, like you get that texture and they're separated. Some of the Sturgeon, they are individual pearls and then some are like mush.

Danielle: It’s just a characteristic of the fish. It's kind of like women. We all have different children, it's the same thing. There are 27 different types of Sturgeon, they all produce different types of eggs.

Bethenny: What an interesting way to grow up. Such a unique perspective on something so niche.

Danielle: I didn't understand how niche it was, and I definitely didn't understand the prices of caviar until I went to college. My grandfather actually moved me in. I called him two weeks later, I have a family from the Soviet Union, and I'm like, “Everyone's getting care packages,” and they're like, “What is a care package?” My grandfather, my mom had never heard of that before and I'm like, “I don’t know, they're getting ramen, razors.” I was sharing a dorm room with five girls, and he sent me foie gras and caviar. I'm eating it, because I grew up eating this, so for me it wasn't weird. And everybody in there was American, except one girl, she was from London, and they were all staring at me like, What the fuck are you eating? One of the girls is still my really close friend and we always talk about this. She's like, “I can't believe the first time I tried caviar I was 18 years old.”

Bethenny: That's amazing. What's the single greatest caviar bite you've ever had? For me, it was in Paris, the baked potato at Caviar Kaspia. That, to me, was insane. I got it for my whole staff. They were dying, they had orgasms.

Danielle: Mine, I think because it was such a moment that we were waiting for, was in 2020 when my grandfather and brother harvested the first Beluga in the United States. I can't even remember if the caviar was necessarily the best I've tried, but it was the momentum leading up to it and how special it felt. And another time was when we had an albino Sturgeon on our farm that we harvested, and it was like, yellow, yellow, yellow. It's very rare. Only one in every 1,000 fish is born albino and an albino fish cannot reproduce albino babies. They tried to figure out why, but they just don't. What are your favorite caviar combinations? If you had to eat caviar one way for the rest of your life, what would it be?

Bethenny: I do like the baked potato, but you have to be in the mood for it. It's heavy, that's a commitment and it can get pasty after a while. To be honest, it's better on a small potato, so that would be a great appetizer at the house. I really just love it on a bagel, I love a scooped bagel. I like it with cottage cheese, but if it's got to be whipped.

Danielle: I still haven't tried it.

Bethenny: You would live for it. It's always in my fridge. As a cousin to your brown bread, I like it on a Multigrain or even a Pumpernickel. I want to do a McDonald's hash brown with cream cheese or crème fraîche and some caviar to bring an expensive tinge to McDonald's. That crispiness would be amazing. How much caviar is in your refrigerator right now?

Danielle: I have five and a half ounces of Keta, and I have half a tin of nine ounces of Kaluga for my son. [Laughs]

Bethenny: What are the health properties in there?

Danielle: It has Omegas, Selenium, Vitamin A, Vitamin B, Vitamin D, a lot of collagen.

Bethenny: I'm allergic to fish, not shellfish and not caviar, which is very strange. I don't get Omega-3’s because I can't have salmon. So maybe that's why I crave caviar. I also crave salt. So everything, from Bottarga to Tobiko. The more salt the better.

Danielle: I love Bottarga.

Bethenny: You and I like intense flavors.

Danielle: Well, there's nothing better than a thinly sliced Bottarga on a summer day with a cold, crisp beer. It's the best combination. That's what I want to eat when I'm in a boat.

Bethenny: How great that you get to, as a living now and a content creator, experience the treasures that you love from growing up. No one would argue that you're not passionate about food.

Danielle: I didn't appreciate it when I was younger. Once I started sharing on social media, I realized that America hasn't tried these things. Like, these things are very gourmet. This is very refined, this is special. It made me appreciate this business, but also the food that I eat.

Bethenny: You're also speaking to people culturally that live here, but grew up with different food. I was talking to Bozoma Saint John, who's actually a Housewife now, about how she felt weird when she was a kid with all the food she ate. I remember being at Montessori and there was a girl at my school, and I remember being obsessed with her little triangles of rice with seaweed. I didn't understand what she was eating, but I remember other people making fun of her and me just wanting it. I was so fascinated by different foods of different cultures, which is why I think social media is so interesting.

Danielle: It's a good way to connect with your culture and to connect people who haven't experienced these things. It's been, honestly, such a wonderful ride. I love that you love caviar.

Bethenny: And I often think about how you'll cringe that I don't care. I do use the pearl spoon, but I don't care. I'm only doing it because I think you might be watching.

Danielle: [Laughs] Listen, I've definitely had moments where all the Mother of Pearl spoons are dirty.

Bethenny: And then I'll have anxiety, because so much of it's there and it's going bad, and I'm like, “Fuck it. I'm putting it all on one cracker.” I don't care if it's $2 or $2,000, it's all going on one cracker and I’m eating it together.

Danielle: That's what [my husband] Aloni does. He has anxiety. He's like, “I think it's been five days,” and he shovels it all onto his eggs.

Bethenny: The other day I was eating in the car, I called it “carviar” because I was eating it on a bagel. I'm going out of town and I have all this caviar, and I'm not letting it go to waste. I'm like, “Bryn, stick it on your sushi, stick it on scallops.”

Danielle: Should my son start bringing it in a sandwich to school?

Bethenny: That's a great sandwich, cream cheese and caviar.

Danielle: Honestly, we grew up eating challah with whipped cream cheese and salmon roe or black caviar, later on in life when I actually started liking caviar. But that's the best combo, a thick slice of challah with whipped cream cheese.

Bethenny: Does it drive you crazy at sushi that you'll order two pieces of Ikura and it's so expensive, and you know you have tins of it.

Danielle: I honestly never order caviar when I go out. I get pissed because people lie. We were just in Amsterdam and our friends took us to the best restaurants, and it's so funny because everywhere on the menu that we went to said, “Beluga, Beluga, Beluga.” I'm like, “Guys, this is not Beluga. I will die on this hill,” but that happens all the time.

Bethenny: That’s so sexy, by the way, that's fucking spy shit. That is really hot. You're the caviar cop.

Danielle: I made it a point to learn, because when I was with my grandfather, I must have been 18 or 19 years old, and we went to a restaurant together. I remember he ordered Branzino and they served it to him covered in cream. He took a bite and then he goes, “Can you call the manager over?” And the server was like, “Is everything okay?” And he's like, “Can you send this back to the chef and tell him, ‘Thank you for the Tilapia.’” I looked at him like, “How did you know it was Tilapia?” He's like, “I know my fish.” They came out all red like, “It must have been a mistake.” It’s not a mistake, you just lie to people because they don't know. And now it pisses me off, so I don't order caviar.

Bethenny: How often does that happen?

Danielle: It happens a lot. And by the way, a lot of stores and caviar companies also lie.

Danielle: It's competitive, but it's not at the same time, because a lot of people want to start a caviar business and they slowly realize, like a year into it, you have to keep up the demand. You have to have really good relationships and a lot of these relationships are grandfathered in. When I see the back end, it’s a lot of very old-school American farmers, farmers in China, farmers in Denmark. People think it’s glamorous, but it’s a very dirty business. You're dealing with fishermen, essentially.

Bethenny: The liquor business is like that. I bet you, the truffle business is like that. They're laughing at us over here at five-star restaurants, but they're in Italy in the mountains. How much has your business exploded from social media?

Danielle: It made a huge change for us, because we have more people now buying caviar. We have a huge population of Gen Z customers, because right after the pandemic a lot of younger people made money from all the different meme coins and the stock market. A lot of people were spending on luxury goods. They were not only spending it on Dior and Chanel, they were spending it on caviar and travel, business class flights.

Bethenny: [Caviar] could have been a dying art. That's the type of thing that could be for a certain generation. So you're the Kim Kardashian of caviar, because your family must be grateful to you. I’ve thought before, This bitch moved this fucking realm. Like, your grandfather's definitely grateful to you.

I just wanted to show people that you don't need to go to Michelin Star restaurants or be on a yacht or in business class to experience caviar.

Photos via TikTok @bethennyfrankel and @dzaslavsky