Meg Stalter and Paul W. Downs Would Kill For Each Other

Meg Stalter and Paul W. Downs cannot handle everything that’s happening right now.

It is weeks ago, and we are on the precipice of the cliff, over which lies the end of the hit show Hacks. Stalter is affectionately petulant about the proceedings, interjecting that she’d probably un-like all of Downs’ Instagram posts if he ever worked with “some funny fat girl” besides her. We clarify that comedy throuples are fine, alongside ensembles. Duos are off limits, seeing as the two have made a veritable name for themselves in this town as the only comedy duo to ever help someone boof cocaine onscreen.

Their chemistry, simply put, is about as electrifying as that scene from last season, what with all the screaming about boofs and gator tails. “Thank you for saying that we have electricity,” says Stalter again quite seriously. Downs smiles, and continues on discussing Hollywood’s longstanding love affair with Ricky and Lucy and most other funny pairs on the silver screen. “I don't think we ever envisioned these two characters being as central to the show as they became until we had Meg on set. Because once Jimmy and Kayla got to play, I think it was from day one, it was like, oh, this is so fun. Meg is so brilliant and so funny and so easily elevates the work.”

It is a seriously complimentary answer after a thoroughly unserious run of questions, myself mostly stalling. Perhaps I believed that beginning with a game about who is more like SpongeBob and who is more like Patrick Star would delay the inevitable, when the lights went dark on the final episode and the credits rolled over whatever gutwrenching comedy creators Downs, Lucia Aniello and Jen Statsky have cooked up to send these characters off.

And what a journey they’ve both had as boss-and-assistant turned unlikely business partners Jimmy and Kayla. As foils to lead characters Ava and Deborah Vance, their power dynamic relies on Stalter’s ineffable quirkiness and Downs’ singular straight face.

Reporting from the future, totally destroyed by that scene in Paris scored by Georgia’s “About Work the Dancefloor,” I can safely report that Stalter’s petulance and Downs’ melancholy was completely justified.

Fans of Downs’ past project Broad City were familiar with his game, seeing the through-line in his ability to ground the utter hilarity and chaos around him in any given scene. Stalter, meanwhile, was a breakthrough talent when she joined Hacks, having made a name for herself online and on the comedy circuit as the coolest underground comedian most people’s favorite gay people were obsessed with. (Girls too, so as to not count myself out.) There’s the “audition for the girl in the movie who the guy almost hooks up with before he goes after the love of his life,” alongside the many, many, many quotable clips that came after, like “hi gay” or my personal favorite: “When Hollywood called Che Diaz,” which has become so integral to the fabric of relationship with my favorite gay guy, I don’t know who we are without it. (“By the way: how was your comedy concert in Cleveland?”)

Simply put: the two have electricity, the sort of sparks flying that had me covering my face for half the interview like some unprofessional schoolgirl.

I wrote, following its May 2021 premiere: “In a sea of procedural cop shows and ‘80s reboots and superhero silver-screen romps, Hacks is an island all her own.” I even joked the show would likely win its leads an Emmy, underestimating the horde of awards that would chase this cast around Tinseltown for the better part of the decade.

While Downs and Stalter’s time on Hacks has wrapped, the show is certainly not going anywhere. It has been hailed as one of the 21st century’s defining comedic offerings, receiving both a mind-boggling amount of Emmy nominations over its five season run and enough electrically charged (heh) “Ava x Deborah” toxic yuri memes to power most of North America. (My personal favorite? “angry mad bisexual writer with a bob cut yearning for toxic age-gap yuri work relationship crashing out quitting job employment office screaming shouting ava hannah einbinder hacks scene reaction video meme” from @dykevideoarchive.)

When I spoke with lead actress Hannah Einbinder ahead of last year’s season four, she told me: “The landscape of comedy is unrecognizable, frankly, to the one that I started in, because now the online thing is so prevalent.” Now, I ask them both if they’ve seen a change in the comedy landscape amidst the success of the show and its fictional comedy troupe. Stalter echoes a similar sentiment to Einbinder, telling Downs and me that social media post-pandemic “has changed comedy a lot, because you can also see weird stuff. Alt comedians can find their audiences, because there's so many people that maybe would like that stuff, but they don't necessarily go to standup clubs.” Coming up from the festival circuit, where Stalter says you could get a manager, the pathways have shifted for up-and-comers, opening them up to entirely new audiences.

If Downs’ previous work on Broad City as a writer and executive producer helped introduce the world to Abbi Jacobson and Ilana Glazer’s defining millennial humor, then Hacks has helped steward an entirely new generation of comedic talents. Alongside Stalter, the show was the primetime springboard for Einbinder, alongside season four newcomers Robby Hoffman and Jake Shane. He tells PAPER that “One of the best parts of making the show has been letting people shine and letting the world see people that might not have been on television before.”

The show also came amidst a wave of societal upheaval, between mass protests and a pandemic that have cast a shadow over the red carpets this cast have haunted for the last five seasons. Stalter in particular, alongside Einbinder, have become firebrands of our dual celebrity-political moment, outspokenly decrying ICE and the administration in interviews, on the red carpet, and even in awards speeches. Stalter tells PAPER: “I know that wearing an ‘ICE Out’ pin, or saying something on the red carpet, is bare minimum, but I also really do respect any actor saying things at all, because it's so important right now. People really do listen to them. Even though it's not like you save the world by wearing the pin, I also think that it's important that we do.”

Downs agrees, explaining that “When people like Meg or Caleb [Hearon] or Hannah live their values, I think it sends a message that it's cool to have values and to live those values.” When he and his co-creators were formulating the show in 2015, “We were thinking about some comedians who would do a late night guest appearance and you'd be like, yikes, they aged out. Something happened, where they've become way more conservative, or they've just lost touch.” From there, they built the basis of Deborah’s story. “She was somebody who had kind of a progressive sitcom, because she was the breadwinner in the sitcom, and she was somebody who was going to be the first female late night host, and then it all kind of went south. And then she leaned into being something else to make her mint. And we were like, can we make a show where this person unlearns those things and can get back a little bit to living the values that made them popular in the first place?”

Stalter says she doesn’t know “how you could be funny if you're not connected to real people that have a real life. [...] If you don't stay connected to people… I don't know how you could be funny if you lose touch with reality that much and get lost.” One is reminded of Stalter’s recent, deeply heartfelt video defending her faith in the face of nationwide ICE raids, or Einbinder’s speech at the 2025 Emmys in which she boldly declared: “Go Bird, fuck ICE, and free Palestine.

One is reminded of the progressive world of comedy that Hacks has been the steward of this decade, protected by the unlikeliest of patron saints, Deborah Vance.

Coming full circle on how badly they're both doing as Hacks hurtles towards the finish line, Downs tells us both: “I’m not kidding, I have OCD, anxiety, craziness now that the show’s ending. Moments like this are so vital for me, to see Meg and do something.” Stalter, earlier in the conversation, says much the same. “I feel sick and I feel like everything is a lie because nothing can last forever.”

Thankfully, there’s an entire cover story still between them, complete with photos and jokes and secrets and the reveal of who is the SpongeBob and who is the Patrick Star. Read that entire interview below.

This is going to be a very serious conversation about love and loss. And so, I want to start you on that note by asking about iconic pairings in entertainment history, and ask who is who in each pairing. So feel free to jump over each other, and go in any order you like. Starting off: Spongebob and Patrick Star.

Meg: I definitely feel like you would be SpongeBob because I feel like you more so are the leader of what to do.

Paul: I think you would be Patrick because Patrick is incredibly loveable.

Meg: Yeah, but he’s also kind of off.

Paul: Is he?

Meg: Yeah, he has some sort of disability, I think.

Paul: He has a disability? I didn’t even realize…

Meg: I was reading that he does… I feel like I would be the one that’s more off.

In the same vein: Wile E. Coyote and Roadrunner.

Meg: I actually feel confused about who those people are.

Paul: I think you’re Wile E. Coyote.

Meg: Coyote or Roadrunner…. You feel like I’m kind of being crazy?You’re maybe painting something on the side of a cliff.

Meg: Yeah, okay. Right!

Paul: There’s a lot of mirage. There’s a lot of trompe l'oeil going on.

Thelma and Louise!

Meg: I’ve never seen that movie…

Who’s driving the car off the side of the cliff? Sorry, seems there is a cliff theme here.

Meg: I actually feel like I’m driving a lot in the show.

Paul: You’re driving, babe. You’re driving a lot.

Meg: Why doesn’t your character drive?

Paul: You’re driving off a freaking cliff. I’m grabbing your hand. I’ll follow you to hell, sister.

Joker and Harley Quinn? Now it’s a mental health theme.

Paul: I think I’m Joker. I think you would look better in a circus bustier, so I think probably Quinn for Meg.

Meg: I’m girl and your boy, so I’d be Harley Quinn.

What about the world of Hacks: Ava and Deborah?

Meg: I think you would probably be Deborah, because I feel like I’m your assistant.

Paul: While that is the truth, I think you’re also more Deborah in that Ava is oftentimes reeling Deborah in.

Meg: You’re so right.

Paul: And putting the guardrails up and saying things like: “You shouldn’t say that in a work setting.” So I think in some ways you’re more Deborah.

Meg: You're so right. I can't even believe I said that. I was just thinking about my job position. That you're the leader, even though I become a manager with you, but you're right, personality wise, I'm off the cuff crazy, saying something crazy, and I'm sort of not caring what people think.

Paul: I would say that Kayla is way more tapped into online culture and meme culture in a way that Ava would be. I think when you say things like big fat line, gator tails, you understand drug culture. Although, hey, Deborah was around in the 70s. She might know what gator tails are.

Meg: She’s more connected to the people younger than her.

This one is maybe a little bit out of left field, but: Diet Coke and Meg Stalter.

Meg: Who's Diet Coke and who's Meg Stalter? Well, I would think that I'm myself.

Paul: I would think that you're Meg Stalter. I'm a tall, delicious drink.

Meg: I actually feel like you could be Diet Coke because you are a healthy eater and you like those donuts that are basically diet donuts. Glonuts.

Paul: Love them.

I'm mostly stalling because this is the last season of Hacks and like most people on planet earth, I'm very upset that it's ending and I'm sad and I don't want it to be over. I'm curious, now that we're at the finish line, the season's wrapped and we’re in the midst of it airing and hurtling towards the finish line: How are you both feeling about this journey coming to a close?

Paul: I'm unraveling.

Meg: Horrible. I feel sick and I feel like everything is a lie because nothing can last forever.

Paul: It is really hard. I will say I am having ... While I feel really grateful and relieved in some ways that we got to tell the story the way we wanted and we all made it because the show went through a lot and there were many moments where we were like, will we ever finish? The further we get from it, the more difficult it is. It's hard. I think we're all grieving and I am certainly having a hard time.

Meg: I also feel very jealous of whoever he works with next. And I said it's specific to us being a duo. So if I saw Paul with some funny fat girl, I would start to be sick to my stomach and I feel like I would start maybe not texting him back. Maybe I feel like I would be mad at him and I would feel like I would be upset with him and I would maybe start unliking some of the likes that I've given him online.

Paul: You would unlike?

Meg: I’d be really upset with you.

Paul: I feel the same way. I actually... I thought it was just in jest, but then I had an image of Meg in another duo. But look, if Meg is leading a show, she's the star of a movie. She's the breakout…

Meg: We’re okay with that?

Paul: I’m there. I’m seated, I have a ticket. I'm excited. If she's in another comedy duo, I am committing vehicular manslaughter. I am absolutely not even just saying… I am doing damage to the world. I'm upset.

Meg: Especially if people are saying like, oh my gosh, this duo. If they were reporting about us being a duo, wow, no one's been better than them two together, me and Chris, Pratt, you would be so … [laughs]

Paul: No!

You’re coming at this from different tabloid headlines too, because I'm sure Them would be like: Meg Stalter removes all photos of Paul from Instagram, and then TMZ: Paul commits vehicular manslaughter in Hollywood Hills. So you're covering all your bases there, really.

Meg: We're making sure! I would take pictures I posted of you and cross your face out and repost them.

Paul: Don’t worry, I’m preventing this from happening. Someone just pitched me an Eddie Murphy Paul Downs vehicle and I said no. I said I need it to be Meg.

Meg: I don't want to see you guys together. I would be so upset. I want to see you all the time, but you with someone else in a road trip comedy, I'm actually not kidding. I would be really upset. I don't think I would not be friends with you, but I would be really sad and I feel like it'd be. It would be hard.

Paul: We're going to have to deal with it if it ever happens.

Meg: If you're an ensemble, I’m happy. If you're in an ensemble, there's nothing that you're doing.

Paul: Same.

So comedy throuples are fine, but not comedy duos.

Meg: And I don't want to see Lucia direct anyone.

Paul: Well, unless you're in the video as well, you won't see it. It's very behind the camera, which I guess keeps her safe.

I was thinking of you both as a comedy duo, and I do think I can confidently say you're the first comedy duo to ever help someone boof cocaine on camera. I think that that is one of the many honors in the Guinness Book of World Records that you hold.

Paul: Thank you. We really try and break ground. We really push culture in a way, and uplift. And so I think boofing is certainly a way of doing that.

Yeah, this is PAPER, so boofing is in our cultural wheelhouse. Meg, I was reading when the show first started, or just in general, people would do a drive by “hi gay” at you on the street. Has that changed since the show has been on now for five years, or are you still getting the “hi gay” drive-bys? Has there been any of your stuff from the show that has come into the mix?

Meg: I definitely mostly get stuff about Hacks, but I still get “hi gay” too, yes. They’ll always say, “hi gay” to me, I think.

Paul, if you were a stranger on the street, what line or quote from the show would you yell at Meg across the street?

Paul: Good question… I think one that tickles me is “lo siento papi.”

Meg: I knew you were going to say that.

Paul: I think “lo siento papi,” but it’s strange to just yell out to someone, “sorry, papi.”

Meg: That’s funny!

On a slightly more serious note, I’ve also talked to Hannah about this too. The show came out in the pandemic, and we talked about what it was like to create it and have that all happen during that time, when comedy was really struggling. Standup was really struggling, because people couldn’t go out and perform. Now, I feel like there’s been so many new comedy voices that have risen with the show. You have employed so many standups. I’m curious if you’ve both seen the world of standup change over the last five, six years, and do you find that maybe has happened parallel to the show?

Paul: I mean, that's a good question. I will say that one of the best parts of making the show has been letting people shine and letting the world see people that might not have been on television before, because that is really honestly the best part of it. Whether it's somebody like Robbie or this season in particular, we have a lot of amazing standups and comedians and people that have certainly worked in other places, but Caitlin Reilly is so funny in this season and Hannah Pilks is so funny in this season. Just people that are all comedy stars. It's just so fulfilling to let other people see them, and to see the love for them online has honestly been one of the best parts of making the show.

In terms of this change of the scene, I mean, Meg continues to do standup.I met Meg doing a live show in person. The first time we met in person was doing a standup show, but post-pandemic, I really haven't done it just because the show takes up a lot of my time. But the one thing that is exciting to me, is that I think because people couldn't go out and be in a crowd and see things, it does feel like live comedy, people still go and see it. I think people appreciate it. Hunger is the best sauce. Did you ever do a Zoom standup show? I did one, Meg.

It is hard. It's dark to do a Zoom standup show.

Meg: I feel like I was, during the pandemic, putting up so much stuff online. Once I got to do a Zoom standup show, it was a whole different thing, because I could film myself doing something and then cut it up and put it online. But when you're trying to be funny in front of people on Zoom, it's really crazy and really hard.

I feel like when I was coming up as a standup, we didn't post our stuff online. And I feel like the last five years, six years, people will just post their clips online and then you can find people like Caitlin, Hannah, Jake Shane, because all of their stuff's online.

I assume casting people look online, too, at people's videos. I think when I was starting out, you could get a manager if you did well at a festival or something. You'd have to do some sort of audition show, or get seen, but then I started, and everyone started putting their stuff online. And that I think has changed comedy a lot, because you can also see weird stuff. Alt comedians can find their audiences, because there's so many people that maybe would like that stuff, but they don't necessarily go to standup clubs.

Obviously the show had been written, and you were cast as Kayla, but I'm curious about the very specific dynamic that evolved between Jimmy and Kayla, that became so popular and so much associated with the show. How early on did that dynamic form? Or, was that something that just naturally developed between you two once you were in the room together. I'm curious, because there is just this electricity between you two that is so specific.

Meg: Thank you for saying that we have electricity.

Paul: Thank you. I think from a writing standpoint, we love comedy duos. It's such a classic thing to have a straight man and a character. And whether it's in something like Greg and Tom in Succession, or Lucy and Ricky, I'm like, it is a staple for a reason. It's a classic for a reason. And we did write with this duo in mind, but I will say: I don't think we ever envisioned these two characters being as central to the show as they became until we had Meg on set. Because once Jimmy and Kayla got to play, I think it was from day one, it was like, oh, this is so fun. Meg is so brilliant and so funny and so easily elevates the work, that it was like, you can give her anything. And when you don't have something, she'll figure it out. It was just the gift that kept on giving.

And so from I think the first day we were working to the first cut, to the first season coming out, and then seeing the audience react to Jimmy and Kayla, I think that really did inform how we wrote toward the characters because it was the most fun thing, at least for me to do.

Meg, what about from your perspective?

Meg: I just was just such a huge fan of Broad City and Paul, I always thought, was the funniest part of the whole show and it's the funniest show. So I just wanted to work with him and the script was so funny. It’s probably the only thing that I got that I was like, "This makes sense for me. I really want this. " And I just thought this is such a funny character, but I didn't know it would be such a big part of the show. Just from the audition pages, I really, really wanted it and thought this is so me, and I just want to work with Paul.

I didn't really think about it being a duo. I just thought: I get to work with Paul. And even if I get to say one thing, it'll be the best day ever.

But the scenes were so funny and it just was so well written. So all of it was already there. And then, I didn't know that they would let me and Paul improv so much, it's just so collaborative. That's why we were able to do that, because I don't think you could feel so free as a duo if you don’t get to play around together.

One thing I've always loved about this show is that your characters, to me, at least, feel much like foils to Deborah and Ava, where there's an inversion of the power dynamic between those two. What it was like to play around with that, because I feel like there's ways it could have gone where maybe it was overly belittling of your character as Kayla, or played into stereotypes. It’s something you just don't see a lot on TV. I'm curious if that's how it felt for you both, and what that was like to play around with.

Meg: I feel like we love each other in real life so much and we both love our characters. So somehow, to me at least, Kayla doesn't come off as stupid as she could, I guess, because the writing's so good and they love Kayla. So I think she could in another show be an annoying, stupid person. But I think in this show, since we all love this character, and she has such a good heart. And also at the core, I think she just really wants to be friends with Jimmy. So I think that saves her from so many mistakes she's made. And then the growth of the character because of the writing is so good that you're like, no, she's not. She just is really privileged and is a little bit in her own world, but she actually does have good ideas and she is smart.

She just thinks differently. Just like Patrick.

Paul: Just like Patrick, exactly. I think when we write the show, obviously it's a comedy, it's about comedy, it's about comedy writing. And so it really is our goal to be funny first and foremost, but we also plot it a little bit more like a drama in that the characters, it's not a traditional sitcom where characters have a game and they don't change. It's something that we always... I think that was part of the strength of our vision for the show is that from beginning to end, you were going to see the characters, whether that be Deborah and Ava in terms of their personal lives or their dynamic with each other, really change. And the same was true for anybody in the ensemble. I mean, whether that's, especially with where, let's say Marcus ends up this season or Marty ends up this season, or Jimmy and Kayla, we always wanted it to be something where these characters evolve because I think sure, some people feel that people don't change.

And I think fundamentally there are certain characteristics that don't, but I do think people evolve. And I think that's part of the wish fulfillment of the show is allowing the ensemble and all of the characters to evolve and change and their dynamics to grow as they grow. And hopefully that makes it feel real. That was one of the things that as much as we wanted it to be sometimes broad and sometimes hard funny, we really wanted it to feel real world as much as we could.

That makes sense. And I'm interested too, what is maybe something that other people would be surprised to find out about the other?

Paul: Well, I know I've said this before, and I think people might know now, especially because you've done it online. Meg deleted her TikTok after they censored her videos about ICE. And I feel like I think sometimes when you see the performance artist Meg is and how funny she is, it almost betrays the fact that she's such a good person and does so much good in the world. And I feel like hopefully people know that and can feel that because that's why they love watching her. And she's partly dynamic because she's so good. I mean that as in decent, but that would be the thing that I could imagine someone who just watches hacks. If there is an auntie who loves their pump rules and isn't really online, if they just see hacks and they see Kayla, they might not know that she is kind and good.

Meg: Well, that's so sweet. I mean, I was going to say a similar thing to you, but I was like, people probably could guess that you're just the most kind person. For everyone in the show, our views really line up. I was actually going to say the same thing, although I feel like they wouldn't be surprised about that with you, because you don't have a persona that's a freak of nature.

Paul: I have my bad boy persona.

There are comedians like Deborah, that archetype, and comedians of that era, that were apolitical, or maybe now considered a little bit out of step with values that people hold. A lot of you now, especially you Meg, and also Hannah and other people in your orbit, like Caleb Hearon, are very outspoken and very forward about your passions and your beliefs. It just feels so different from other points in comedy history. If you look at who has been popular in comedy beforehand, it feels like things are progressing.

I don't know if that feels the same for you on the other side of things, Meg, but I'm curious to hear if you have a differing opinion or the same.

Meg: That's really interesting. Part of me thinks it's because our country's in a state of emergency and that there's so many bad things going on, that it feels irresponsible not to say something and to speak up for what we believe in and to protect people that are innocent people that are not maybe feel as free to speak up with ICE. And some people in the country aren't safe to speak up. So it feels like we have a platform, and I also think there's something about comedy specifically that's like: we are used to speaking up when maybe people are like... I mean, I don't know… it's just, we're historically ready to speak up. Comedians in general, I think, are outspoken or they're playing rooms where people don't want to hear them. So I think there's that, but also I think it's where our country is at and I think it's really important.

And I know that wearing an “ICE Out” pin, or saying something on the red carpet, is bare minimum, but I also really do respect any actor saying things at all, because it's so important right now. People really do listen to them, even though it's not like you save the world by wearing the pin. I also think that it's important that we do.

Paul: When people like Meg or Caleb or Hannah live their values, I think it sends a message that it's cool to have values and to live those values. And I think making something not uncool, or not scary, is half the battle. At its core, when we were thinking about making the show, it was an exploration of that thing. Because like Meg said, so many comedians… think about George Carlin and the left-leaning, progressive things that a lot of comedians say.

This was again in 2015 when we were thinking about the show. We were thinking about some comedians who would do a late night guest appearance and you'd be like, yikes, they aged out. Something happened, where they've become way more conservative, or they've just lost touch. Sometimes, you become really successful and really wealthy and you do lose touch. You're not actually functioning in society with normal people anymore. That was Deborah's story. She was somebody who had kind of a progressive sitcom, because she was the breadwinner in the sitcom, and she was somebody who was going to be the first female late night host, and then it all kind of went south. And then she leaned into being something else to make her mint. And we were like, can we make a show where this person unlearns those things and can get back a little bit to living the values that made them popular in the first place?

It's interesting, this idea that you can also age out of being somebody with values. It does feel like that can happen, but it doesn't happen with everybody. Sometimes you see somebody on late night and you're like, yes, you're still saying the thing and doing the thing and you're still funny because you're still tapped into culture in a way that some people do lose. And I get it. It's exhausting. When you've been in show business or whatever, it can be really exhausting. And I get why some people are beaten down and they're like, they have a maid and a chef and they're like, whatever. You know what I mean? And it does warp their brain. I'm like, okay, I get it. But I also am like, I really respect those people that don't lose it, don't lose their bite and are still trying to be better and learn.

Meg: I don't know how you could be funny if you're not connected to real people that have a real life. It's like celebrities are on a different planet, and you have to acknowledge that even when we are at an award show and we're wearing expensive clothes and we're on a really big TV show and you feel really lucky, but also you have to know this isn't normal life. You got really lucky and God put you here and we're really privileged. And if you don't stay connected to people… I don't know how you could be funny if you lose touch with reality that much and get lost. Audiences don't want to hear jokes about your butler and your driver. Comedy does come from the real world.

Also, unfortunately, because of the change in the industry, sure, maybe some standups can have a driver and a butler and a show, but I don't know if that's even possible as much. Even if you have your own sitcom, I don't know if that happens like it used to in the Seinfeld era.

Meg, I was watching your chat with Brittany Broski, where you were informed that the Washington Post had referred to you as a “foul mouthed bisexual.” I’d like to offer you a chance to rebut that, or offer a correction on how you should be described instead.

Meg: I don’t know! I’m like, did I say that about myself to them? Or they just…

It’s what they led with. The sentence is something like, “It’s interesting to hear a foul mouthed bisexual…”

Meg: I’d say I am an innocent mouthed, mostly lesbian but still bi person but mostly gay, still bi, person that says really nice things.

Paul, how would you have described Meg in that sentence?

Paul: Okay, so it was foul mouthed bisexual? I would have said star angel bisexual. I don’t want to describe it… I mean… mostly gay but also….

Meg: …person who loves her girlfriend only!

Paul: Yes, star angel and happily in love, never looking again.

Paul, getting back to you, Hacks has been hailed as a defining comedy of the decade, and has had so much success. Emmy wins aside, it’s probably going to be a show that people go back to forever. Amidst the success, looking back now, what is the thing about the journey so far that has surprised you most?

Paul: I think we set out to do something that we thought was special, and we really hoped that people would find it and love it as much as we did, because it is our baby and we love it. It’s the thing that we care about so much, that I always hoped it would have the success it did. But I will say, that the very first year that they announced the Emmy nominations, we were like: “Wow, it’d be really great if the show got one, or it’d be really great if Jean got one.” And then there were 17 or something, and Carl got one, and our editors got one. When we made Broad City, as much as we cared about that show and loved that show and were proud of that show, it never got an Emmy nomination. It wasn’t something that was recognized in that way.

It obviously had its audience. But it was something that we were like, well, that’s just a different world or something. So for us to hear that, whenever that was that July, we were like, whoa! Because it’s weird. You see online, people reacting, and people tweeting about it. We’re like, wow, I think people are watching. But it’s not like it used to be, where you know how many people tune in to NBC. You just don’t really know. When that happened, we were like, wow, it is resonating in some way. Not that it’s all about awards, because it’s not, but it is really nice when even our music supervisor and all these people got recognized in some way. That was so cool, because it takes literally 300 people to make a show. For so many of those people to get their flowers for their dedication and hard work was really cool.

I guess that was the biggest shock.

I was writing for a different website at the time, and I went back to see what I had written about that first season, because it was lockdown journalism and we were just writing anything. I think the headline was like, “This show is definitely going to win a bunch of Emmys.” Or, “Jean Smart is definitely going to win a bunch of Emmys. Are you seeing this?”

Paul: I guess you called it! And we hoped Jean would, because she’s been Jean Smart. We were like, “She’s so deserving.” But you never know. You never know what is going to happen.

Looking towards the future: You both have been handed a blank check by HBO to remake anything, reboot culture and all that. Rights have been cleared, everyone’s on board, but you have to cast the other in it. What are you remaking and what are you casting them as?

Meg: I wish we could recreate Hacks again.

Paul: Me too, oh my gosh.

Meg: And it’d be either a spin-off, so us as ourselves. Or, I’d like to see you as Deborah.

Paul: Incredible. Oh my god… I’m going to try and give you an answer too, but I don’t know if you’re going to beat that, to re-do Hacks again.

You had those outfits you fitted for Katya, and the wigs too. I’m sure maybe some of those would fit you also, Paul.

Paul: I have to say, we need to give Katya credit. That was Katya’s wig. Basically, we were like, we have a hair department that can do it, but we imagine you’ll do it better. That was the case! That wig was really good.

Meg, I want to do a movie that’s a great buddy comedy movie. Why am I drawing a blank? I know as soon as we sign off Zoom…

Meg: Romy and Michelle!

Paul: Romy and Michelle, exactly. Oh, When Harry Met Sally. You and me as Harry and Sally.

Meg: That’s so sweet. I could see that, us in a rom-com. That’s so precious.

Well, HBO. They won a bunch of Emmys already. I think you need to call them, and yes, I’m speaking directly to HBO since we have them on the call.

Paul: Yeah, they’re on this Zoom. They’ll do whatever you want. PAPER is culture… if PAPER says it…

Before we go, I have to ask: What was it like working with Katya? Just from hearing her talk about it so much, about how it’s her favorite show of all time, what was she like on set?

Paul: It was so fun. We were so happy. It was just an absolute blast. Jean got such a kick out of it. Again, we were just talking about this: part of the joy of the show is getting to feature amazing people and have them be a part of the Hacks family. And Katya's been so supportive of the show and I know loves the show. So just to have that happen was just so great, because it's also so rewarding, and we're lucky that most people that we offer a part to say yes, know the show and like it, and that's why they're saying yes.

That was a really good day. It was really fun.

She’s been talking on her podcast about how she was so worried she was going to whiff it, but knowing her, I’m sure she knocked it out of the park.

Paul: It's scary to come on set and be like, "Okay, you're dressed as Deborah Vance and you're going to do a scene with Jean." It's very intense to be like, drop in and do a scene with Jean Smart. That is very hard to ask, for anyone, to do. So I think it was a huge success, because it wasn't whiffed at all. And I could see other people not living up to the challenge.

Meg: Katya’s just so funny. She was so amazing.

Paul: The slapping at the end…

Oh! I just realized I missed the most important of the duo questions. This is the perfect way to sign off, as we run up on time. Tying this all full circle: Who’s Abbi and who’s Ilana?

Meg: Oh, that’s really good. I would think you’re Abbi.

Paul: I think in Hacks, I’m Abbi.

Meg: What do you think in real life?

Paul: Well, in real life, I know this, because Abbi and Ilana have answered this in interviews, that they feel I’m more Ilana. I think on our show, our dynamic is very: I’m Abbi and you’re Ilana. I think in life we’re maybe both Ilanas, but on the show, I’m really stretching my range and playing Abbi.

Thank you both so much! I’m getting emo now, realizing it’s over now!

Paul: I’m not kidding, I have OCD, anxiety, craziness now that the show’s ending. Moments like this are so vital for me, to see Meg and do something. I’m needing this, so thank you.