Erin Moriarty and Karen Fukuhara,  'The Boys' Girl's Girls

It is probably really hard to not ask Karen Fukuhara and Erin Moriarty about the exploding whales and orgies on their hit show The Boys. Thankfully, this is PAPER. I’d like to ask, instead, about the Margiela ballet flats Fukuhara keeps in her purse for red carpet events.

Eric Kripke’s satire of superhero culture laundered through our actual culture is hurtling towards the finale, and opinions are everywhere on what could possibly happen about Homelander. I catch them both fresh off a joint trip with friends, well away from the hotly contested theories and media blitz around their show. Throughout the ensuing conversation, they repeatedly emphasize those friendships — the camaraderie amongst the girls of The Boys, specifically — as one part of the magic puzzle that made it such a radically fun experience these last five seasons.

“We've had such a special, unique anomaly of an experience with the female characters on our show. And so as a result, you come out on the other side and it's a beautiful bond and it's really, really supportive and it really is something that we possess because we've brought in these female perspectives on a show that deals with misogyny,” Moriarty sagely tells us both. Fukuhara adds that “it all comes top down,” highlighting their female directors and crew as integral to the process of creating the on-set environment they both flourished in.

Through the fire on The Boys, Fukuhara says she’s “starting to feel more for the younger generation, more protective, maternal almost.”

The sentiment stands in relief against the very premise of the show, which tackles a world in which superheroes act in ways not aligned with the on-air values of corporate conglomerates that popularized them in theaters and streamers globally. No, these “supes” are the literal mouthpieces of corporate greed and human malice, abusing power and subjugating the weak. In the trailer for the new season, we even see them behind podcast microphones — a skewering commentary on man-o-sphere influencers. Moriarty tells PAPER: “We don't want to be the show that was ultimately known for cynicism. I think Eric Kripke has been explicit about that, which might seem kind of counterintuitive, but especially with this season, what we're saying is that hope is the greatest personal currency one can hold.”

As Moriarty sees it, “Being a part of a show that's making, like you said, the manosphere commentary, it's really cathartic. It's really nice to be a woman in the industry and be introduced to a character that is the quote unquote ingenue and put in a box, and then all of a sudden she's tackling the Me Too storyline in season one and she’s surprising you.” Fukuhara agrees. “Like Eric has said, sometimes we are the ones sort of weirdly predicting the future, unfortunately. I feel like a lot of shows are too afraid to go there. We want to be liked by everybody, it's human nature.”

Those orgies and exploding whales hang over our conversations about white supremacist superheroes and manosphere podcasters. I broach if either of them ever tired, in their many press junkets, of the inevitable question about the absurdity of the occasional genital prosthetics, or the shock around various graphic sequences. Moriarty laughs, saying: “Leave it to our show to satirize the very concept of your question and what you’re asking. My character has a press junket and we literally address the satire of being in a redundant press junket, and having to be the puppet for this massive corporation that she works for.”

What is it Fukuhara said about predicting the future?

While they both remain mum on the fate of Homelander and their ragtag crew of good guys (ish), what follows below is an expansive conversation on the workplace politics of being a woman in Hollywood, the best cocktails to batch for a girl’s night, and the catharsis of political satire.

Read PAPER’s full interview with Erin Moriarty and Karen Fukuhara below. This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.

You can watch the fifth and finale season of The Boys on Prime Video.

I just wanted to say actually my first photo shoot editorial for a glossy magazine was with Jack Quaid for The Boys, I believe it was, after season one. This feels very full circle now that the finale is here.

Erin: I love that! He’s our boy, he’s the best.

We talked about, I think, mermaid classes. That was my takeaway, it was the pandemic, so it’s all a jumble.

Erin: I forgot he did mermaid classes!

Karen: I remember this too. He was such a good sport about it. I think it was accompanying his then girlfriend.

I had this neighbor that was banging on the bongo drums, because he was a bongo teacher. I kept having to stop the interview like, I’m sorry, the bongo teacher next door is really going at it on Zoom right now. Thankfully? No bongo teachers tonight. Back to you both, I was thinking of something you said in a recent conversation with Helen Hunt. "I can feel content right now and present. How often do you get to say that as an actor?” Looking back at the season being done and the series being done, I'm curious, what about this particular project allowed you to walk away feeling content with the work?

Erin: I think honestly, the version of content for myself that I'm able to find through this job is just by knowing that I've always been the kind of person that needs to know that I tried my absolute best in every moment that I had with this character, and that's all I can do. When it comes to preparation for each season, when it comes to the homework that I like to do at home privately, in terms of fueling this character with as much humanity and nuance as I can, that allows me to sleep at night almost. To know that I have done as much work as I can to be present with this character, to show up for the rest of my past and crew.

That's the version of content I can find. Outside of that... I'm pretty type A minus now, but formerly very type A. Acting has been a really interesting exercise of control issues, because it's such a personal subjective experience. It's not mathematical, it's not equational. You can't add things up and get a resolute final answer. X amount of hours of prep work doesn't necessarily equate to what you think it's going to equate to on the day. You never know on any given day what challenges are going to be posed to you from an emotional standpoint, which I think is really cool, but the control issues in me have taken over in some moments. So all I can do and all I've learned to do is be someone who likes to prep for sure.

I love to prep. I love to do my homework. I love to show up as full as I can with that side of things, and then let the rest go, and trust that that's where the contentment comes from, that there is no such thing as perfection and perfection is the enemy of good, in the end.

Karen, how about for you, looking back now that things are done. How are you feeling, especially near the end of the season and viewers have this intense buildup, looking back at the work you did on the show and what is in store still for your character as things close out?

Karen: I kind of want to mirror what Erin said. We had a really great group of people working together, that came to set always prepared, and it's not always like that. It kind of is an anomaly to have every single actor care as much about the work as the other person. I also am a rehearsal whore, and I love to do that work as possible. And sometimes for other projects, we're not given the access to information, the ability to collaborate, or it makes a difference when Eric, the showrunner, is one phone call, one email away, and he will respond within 24 hours if not a few hours. It makes a difference when I want to learn a new skill.

I had to sing and they got me a vocal coach and dance coach and we had ample rehearsal time for that and that helped because I had never done dance choreography before. Same with stunts.

So as an actor, it means the world when we can have access to do the thing that we do, to learn the thing that we must do on set to come prepared. And so in that way, I feel like I'm very proud of the work that I've been doing for the past five seasons on the show and I spoke up what I wanted to speak up. I don't think I pulled any punches in the scene, fighting for my character, all of that. I don't know, we're very blessed. It was just such a pleasant, lovely — hardworking and at times really difficult, shoot days — really fulfilling project to work on. And it's going to be really hard to top this or even find a match in the future.

I want to come back to what especially makes The Boys feel so present culturally. But getting back to something you just said: There's so much to be said about a show like The Boys and certainly a lot has been said about it. I wanted to read you a list of the most common adjectives I found, in no particular order: shocking, grotesque, bloody, gory, disturbing, explosive, surprising, graphic, never before seen. And of course you can imagine genitals and orgies also come up into the mixture but those are nouns, not adjectives.

Did you ever expect, from the pilot, which obviously had so much of what made this show The Boys, the lengths you would travel to stretch what was possible on television? There are so many scenes that are “never been done before on TV.”

Erin: I had no idea. And I really credit that to our writers that is 100% them. Every single moment I had where I got to play around in a scene that I just couldn't believe was being put on television.

First and foremost, I don't like to arbitrarily shock people. I like to shock people in a way that feels totally appropriate and totally deserved. And I think we always did that. I also just think it is really fun, as an actor, to get to play on a show like this. It felt like an actor's playground. We got to laugh what felt like all day, not every day, but most of our days. We got to observe the most absurd circumstances. And I showed up to work so many days in awe that this is what I get to do, and I get paid for this kind of thing.

And so I'm very grateful that that's the case. But in terms of all of these moments, the shock moments, the shocking moments that are emotional, the shocking moments that are comedic, those are all a tribute to our writers and the mastermind behind the show Eric Kripke. That's really when I stand back and I put my hands up and I'm like, I'm a player and I'm fortunate that I wanted this job and they wanted me back and I happened to be in the room when these moments were happening because all of those moments were our writers. That's all them 100%. So I credit them and I just feel fortunate.

What about you, Karen?

Karen: I think signing onto this job was really exciting, but also full of question marks, full of questions without answers, because I read the comics and it is so bizarre. I kept thinking, "How am I going to put that on the screen?"

And sure enough, we've really pushed the boundaries on what is allowed to be aired and I love being a part of a show that embraces that. I don't think that it was easy for our writers and our showrunner to win those battles with the studio, because sometimes nobody knows how the audience is going to react or what is acceptable, how progressive these fans are going to be. And so I think it didn't come easily, but I'm so glad that we have been able to not just do the crazy action gags and prosthetics and all of that, but also go there with the social commentary.

A lot of it is mirroring the real world. And like Eric has said, sometimes we are the ones sort of weirdly predicting the future, unfortunately. I feel like a lot of shows are too afraid to go there and we want to be liked by everybody, it's human nature. And so sometimes we don't like to create things that are so polarizing, but it is important to have these conversations and to have a media avenue that addresses these things for the people that want to tune in.

You both bring up a really good point.. I think of the scene with Homelander and the crowd very early on in his story arc as something that has stuck with me for so many years. What it's saying about that character, but also politically and about where this show is going. There's so many moments like that. I mean, this season, in the trailer, from the very outset, saw supes on a mic chatting about manosphere talking points, which is obviously very, very pointed commentary. Do you both feel that has kept the show relevant and weathering the many changes in the superhero genre?

Erin: It feels cathartic to be a part of it for sure. And it just feels really gratifying. I know for myself specifically, I'm looking around and I'm observing so many things that just feel so not okay.

We don't want to be the show that was ultimately known for cynicism. I think Eric Kripke has been explicit about that, which might seem kind of counterintuitive, but especially with this season, what we're saying is that hope is the greatest personal currency one can hold. So I think that's how we prevent from dipping into cynicism totally. But as an actor, being a part of a show that's making, like you said, the manosphere commentary, it's really cathartic. It's really nice to be a woman in the industry and be introduced to a character that is the quote unquote ingenue and put in a box, and then all of a sudden she's tackling the Me Too storyline in season one and she’s surprising you.

So many elements that are going on in our culture aren't okay. And one of the reasons why they become perpetuated, like the Me Too movement prior to the expose, for example, because the complacency because of the silence, because no one says anything. And the fact that our show is saying things and pointing out things that are blatantly not okay. It just feels really, really good and it feels appropriate and it feels to me like it's a flavor of satire that I hope people riff on even more.

When you put it in the format of superheroes, more people are going to just generically be attracted to it and watch it, but it's going to shove some social commentary down their throat that maybe otherwise wouldn't have been digested.

One last question on this topic: this is obviously still a TV show and you guys also want it to be entertaining and exciting and fun. In balancing the broader narratives and themes behind the show with also keeping it fun and entertaining, did you ever, at any point in different seasons, be like: Oh God, I'm going to sit in the interview and they're going to ask me about the orgy scene again. Or were you always excited to talk about all parts of it?

Karen: I was excited. It's not every day that you get to do these crazy things, and we always looked at it and we always shot it from a very serious standpoint. And the prep work that went into each of the departments, it's not easy to make something explode at the exact right time with all of the other elements. You got to get the timing right with the actors and then the background has to explode at the right time and then someone's falling over and catching on fire and you got to keep a safe set for that.

And so it was always very professional and I love talking about it because not only is there a shock factor, but there's an element of pride as well, because it was a team effort and we all did it together and somehow managed to succeed in exploding a whale.

Erin: Do you know what’s funny also, about what you’re asking, is leave it to our show to satirize the very concept of your question and what you’re asking. My character has a press junket and we literally address the satire of being in a redundant press junket, and having to be the puppet for this massive corporation that she works for, which is funny. When when you’re on a show that directly satirizes that, it feels like it diffuses the absurdity of it.

So when you actually show up to talk about the show itself, there's more excitement in it because when we're all together, we wag our tails, and we're always paired for press and we get to talk about such crazy things. I think going back to the crazy days on set, and looking around and never tiring of those crazy days, and just being so grateful that our job was so insane in so many ways. I'm still just grateful that I can sit here and talk to you about topical matters that we address, orgies that we shot. All of these crazy things I still haven't fatigued of.

I don't think I ever will fatigue of the concept that I'm even having a press junket talking about the things that we can talk about. Our show is so rich with crazy content and once again, not arbitrarily crazy, but just emotionally rich, politically rich, socially rich content. I feel grateful.

If I look like I'm smiling too much, it's because I was actually referencing that season two episode. You try not to be too on the nose about it…

Karen: I just wanted to add, I think it's also great because our show… it's not just about the bigger action scenes or the bigger explosion scenes. It's kind of balanced out with the character arcs and the growth between each character across seasons. And I think that's why it makes it easier to talk about, because we do get those hard-hitting questions as well. And then some of them can be quite emotional, or showing a different side of vulnerability for our characters. And then to offset that with a follow-up question about a crazy fight sequence really just brings the mood into a lighter space. I don't know if Erin agrees, but I've done press for kids shows before and I find that way more difficult than doing interviews for The Boys, because our show is so R-rated that nothing is off limits.

We're allowed to talk about anything and it almost feels like I'm talking to a friend because I don't have to filter myself.

Erin: My days of doing PG-13 movies and TV shows… I’m not going to say no, but it’s going to entail a lot of bloopers for me at this point, because it’s so difficult to express myself without some expletive coming out.

Speaking of balancing the highs and the lows, I was reading some of your old interviews, Karen, and you talked about this thing that immediately piqued my interest, which is the cast having a thing called an estrogen night after you guys would wrap. And again, this is PAPER. I have to ask you about estrogen night. Is that something you have maintained since wrapping?

Erin: Oh my goodness-

Karen: Actually…

Erin: We sadly haven’t.

Karen: No, we have! We didn’t call it estrogen night, but we just came back from a trip.

Erin: That’s true!

Karen: It was just so much fun. And the girls of The Boys, our friendship is strong. I think estrogen night started off, I think, season one or two because we just wanted a point of connection. I feel like the conversations that happen without the presence of a male figure can be different, the energy is different, and so those were some really, really special times. I feel like season five, it was not as prevalent maybe.

Erin: Karen, we were working our asses off, and so we would be exhausted. But you’re totally right in that after this season wrapped, we’ve really been so mindful about the women who have worked on this show and the way that manifests is: we will have nights out in Los Angeles, or we’ll have trips like the one we just took. There is this bond between the women on our show that is so strong.

I just always feel very grateful, because all of the women on our show are girls girls. Not being a girl's girl is the most self-defeatist thing that you can be. Women are amazing. And female friendships are the most potent relationships that I've ever had in my life and to deprive yourself of that has never made sense to me. I just think that the way women empower other women is just one of the strongest things that I've observed in my lifetime. And it's been really amazing having Karen in The Boys. It has created this bond between us that has sort of, in my opinion, catalyzed an unspoken, mutually shared secret language almost. We can look at each other and just with a facial expression, we can understand certain things and it can be funny or it can be emotionally poignant.

We've had such a special, unique anomaly of an experience with the female characters on our show. And so as a result, you come out on the other side and it's a beautiful bond and it's really, really supportive and it really is something that we possess because we've brought in these female perspectives on a show that deals with misogyny.

Karen: Over the years as I grow older, I've become more and more in tune with my female friendships. I've always had them, but I've just started to realize how important that has been. And I find so much solace and a sense of belonging and support with my girlfriends. And like Erin said, I love when you can look across the room at your girlfriend and know exactly what they're thinking, whether it's an inside joke that just is forming or in times of like, oh man, this is bad, we support each other. But in episode two, I have an intimate scene and I have never done an intimacy scene before and I felt so much support through that experience because Erin was so helpful. I called her, she walked me through what's going to happen on set, what I can ask for contractually.

She was really gracious in her information because she's had experience with that before. And then we also had a female director, Shauna, she was just wonderful and it felt very safe and comfortable on set. And Shauna had created a space where I could ask for certain things and certain angles and shots that I was more comfortable with. We had an open conversation about that.

I think it all comes top down. It's just the power of women. I'm starting to feel more for the younger generation, more protective, maternal almost.

Erin: I also have developed this need to make sure that there's an emotional safety amongst the women in the room and they can be crew members, they can be cast members, they can be extras. And I realized that this necessity to make sure all women within the room felt emotionally safe.

It's important for me to do so and to make environments emotionally safe for women if I can. And I realized it came from the young woman in me that stepped onto set in various circumstances and didn't feel emotionally safe. And I know how horribly isolating, and how in general horrible that can feel. And as a result, I think that there's a little bit of an emotional healing moment going on for myself, when I step onto a set or a work environment or any environment, and look around specifically towards the women and make sure that I'm doing everything I can to intuitively clock if anyone feels even remotely emotionally unsafe or disrespected or whatever that might be. And I really do know now that that's because once upon a time, I felt emotionally unsafe in a way and I couldn't speak up for myself.

On the topic of misogyny, this is PAPER. I want to reclaim a stereotypically misogynistic thing, which is: we’ve been talking about explosions and blood and orgies. How do we lower the stakes now, at the end? Well, let’s ask about some stereotypically girly shit, and reclaim it.

Erin: Oh, that’s good. [Laughs]

Answer them any which way you feel, obviously. You both have done so many grueling stunt days. What product did you live and swear by while shooting?

Erin: Oh, Lumiy. 100%, for both of us.

Karen: Lumify!

Erin: I’ve pledged allegiance to Lumify. It will whiten your eyes when you’re bloodshot, when you’re exhausted. Great hangover cure, or aesthetic cure. It would be Lumify. The thing is: you can’t combat sleep deprivation. You can’t out-supplement it, you can’t do anything to really counteract sleep deprivation. Sleep is king.

However, that being said, I swear by my supplements, my electrolytes, I get really granular with that stuff. I want my lipostomal vitamin C, I want my electrolytes, I want my creatine, I want to supplement as much as I possibly can with scientifically backed supplements, because my body is suffering when I'm working on really long days anyway, because of the sleep deprivation. It's never going to counteract it, but I'm going to add as many supplements as I can to support my body.

Karen: I agree. I think Erin is more in tune with exactly what kind of supplements are necessary, but for me, I love a good sugar-free electrolyte. I love Element.

And then in season five, I had these crazy stomach issues and I had to go to a naturopath and completely change my eating routine and it was really impossible for me to be cooking and shooting at the same time, and especially cooking the specialty foods that I was advised to eat. And so a friend of mine is a chef in Toronto, her name's Haru, and she focuses on vegetarian and vegan foods. And I ate fish, but having her create meals for me weekly while shooting, it was such a key element of me regulating my health, because a lot of things come from the gut, and so that helped me immensely. She was such a help.

Fabulous. Next one: what’s one movie that has made you cry no matter how many times you’ve watched it, if there is a movie like that?

Karen: I feel like we cry a lot! Many movies!

Erin: My movie I feel is kind of obscure. I went through a phase of watching it really obsessively because I was kind of studying the lead actress's performance in it: Nomadland with Francis McDormand is one of my favorite movies of all time. And that movie really gut punches me in a way that's visceral. I know that it's not like, The Notebook kind of answer that most people would answer with, but when I really think with my gut, that's what comes up. It's like that movie, anything that entails someone's really, really personal, intimate journey with their own identity has always really led me to feeling choked up. So that one for sure.

Karen: There’s so many out there. I’m a huge fan of Inception. I’ve said this in every interview: the scene where Cillian Murphy is saying goodbye to his dying father, and he finally opens the chest and he realizes that his father had loved him all his life, even though he didn’t realize it. A lot of the parental scenes get me, the mother-daughter or the father-son or the father-daughter relationships, they really get me. I don’t usually watch movies more than one, or twice, because there are so many other movies to watch. I recently watched Rental Family, by Hikari; she also did Beef. There were great moments of a good cry in there.

On a lighter note: what is your favorite outfit to repeat?

Erin: That's a really good question. I am such a basics girl. I love that it feels like it's a renewed trend to go out at night and it's okay to wear literally a tank top, jeans and little kitten heels, like flip-flop kitten heels. The heels elevate the outfit, but I'm sorry, five, 10 years ago, it wasn't like you could just go out in a tank top, jeans and kitten heels.

It wouldn't have felt like an intentionally aesthetic outfit, but now if you've got good little sandal kitten heel, good jeans, a tank top, I feel like the subdued aesthetic is now back in, and I love that, because I'm such a basic girl, ultimately, with that kind of thing. And I love that I can put on a good quality tank top. It doesn’t feel inaccessible. Designers are awesome, I love a designer bag. But I sometimes feel fraudulent when I’m just pushing those things that are so excessively expensive for the average person. I feel kind of insensitive about it. I’m like, you wear whatever you want, but a tank topo and little heels and jeans is cool.

Karen: I feel like a lot of time, I’m in my gym clothes, and I feel the most confident when I’m wearing a cute workout set that matches in color. I have a tendency to get really distracted. I like to color coordinate all my workout sets so that once I walk into the closet, I just pick up one hanger and that’s the thing, so that I don’t have any hesitation going into the gym and I don’t waste any time.

I feel like, especially in LA… I know it’s not acceptable in Europe or anywhere really, other than America… but I go to dinner in my sweat set or workout set. That’s always a good staple. I’m a pretty lazy fashion girl, so I love to have one item in the outfit that ties it all together! If I wear a workout set, I put on a leather jacket and it elevates the look. Or if you have a cute, relaxed long skirt on, it kind of is a very daytime look. Then, you can put on some leather boots and it elevates the look.

My obsession right now is my flat ballet Margielas. I love bringing those, because they fit in every single bag of yours, no matter how small. Because they’re flat! I put them in my purse and then, as soon as the cameras stop rolling, I switch into my flats.

The purse sandal is a lost art.

Erin: So essential!

One last question: we mentioned estrogen night, so, let’s end with estrogen night. Let’s say we’re hosting another. What cocktail are you bringing? What wine are you bringing?

Erin: That’s a good question…

Karen: I feel like wine is a staple. That was easy for us to bring, and we could pick one up on the way.

Erin: It is, but if we had this now, I would make my lychee martinis. I make a delicious lychee martini.

Love a lychee martini.

Erin: So, I would make a lychee martini. I feel like we would definitely order in from somewhere really delicious, as opposed to cooking. Maybe one of us would cook…

Karen: I would bring Thai food! I know that Erin likes green curry, so we have a favorite place in Toronto, it was called PAI. It’s such an easy pickup or delivery, and I love a good spicy margarita, so I would probably make that.