Dylan Mulvaney Finds Her Light

“I think most trans people have strongly ingrained survival tactics,” Dylan Mulvaney writes in her new memoir, Paper Doll: Notes From A Late Bloomer. “My survival tactic has always been to look for the light.” And look for the light she does throughout her literary debut, which became a New York Times best-seller shortly after its March publication.

No matter the subject she tackles — whether it be her ever-evolving relationship with her parents, her various bouts with depression or the reactionary backlash to her partnership with Bud Light, which she shadily but deservedly redubs “Generic Beer,” never once referring to the brand by name — Mulvaney’s signature effervescence never fizzles out.

Her musings on faith, identity, celebrity, desirability, and other subjects that often prove thorny might paint the actress and content creator in more vulnerable terms than her millions of TikTok followers are used to, but her humor never wavers, nor her optimistic outlook.

“A man can switch from adoration to anger in a second if he’s not getting what he wants,” she advises about halfway through the book in a chapter that lists, in rapid-fire succession, everything she learned during the first 100 days of her transition. She follows up that ominous maxim saying, “No matter the tucking situation, waterslides will ALWAYS be worth it.”

In reading Paper Doll, it becomes clear that looking for the light in even the darkest of scenarios has never been Mulvaney’s sole means of survival. Friendship always seems to have played a pivotal role in keeping her going — particularly her lifelong friendship with Lily Drew, the writer, actor, and “OG ride or die” whom Mulvaney dedicated her book to.

To celebrate the release of her memoir, Mulvaney sat down with Drew to discuss not only Paper Doll and the experience of writing that book, but also what the pair hope to find in their futures, including but not limited to Mulvaney’s future husband. (He’s going to be British, they both agree; Drew moved to the U.K. to be with her man, so it would only be right if Mulvaney followed suit.) The friends additionally commiserate over feeling underestimated in their respective industries.

“We just have to show them what we’ve got,” Mulvaney says, after dishing about the one-woman show she’s been writing in the absence of roles thrown her way. “The only way that we’re going to do it is just by showing them who we are until someone can’t question it,” Drew agrees, adding that her psychic told her as much. “We’re woo-woo with shit!” Mulvaney laughs. “We’ve been waiting for people to give us our shot, but screw it. We’ll just have to do it ourselves.”

Below for PAPER, the two friends connect, unplugged and off-the-grid, from "a little nudist colony of hot spring bathers," as Mulvaney describes.

Lily Drew: I want to go back to the question that you asked me. You were like, “Lily, why am I still single?”

Dylan Mulvaney:[Singing] Why am I still single?

Lily: I don't have an answer for that. I don't know, you’re a catch and you deserve love.

Dylan: Thank you.

Lily: You know what? I think you think that people are picky with you, but I think you're picky with people. That's my really honest answer.

Dylan: I have a very clear idea of the kind of person I'm supposed to be with and that can be limiting, but I also think it's smart because it means I'm not settling. I don't settle really, do I?

Lily: No, you don't settle at all, and you're also very definitive about any decisions you have and you're good with boundaries, which I'm not really good at.

Dylan: I hook up with hot people.

Lily: Yeah, you hook up with really hot people. This is what I predict for you, and I honestly feel like I usually get this really right: I think that you're going to, out of nowhere, and I've said this from the beginning, you only get it when it's out of nowhere. Out of nowhere, someone's going to come into your life, you're going to fall madly in love and you're going to be with that person for the rest of your life. I don't see you in two long relationships.

Dylan: No.

Lily: I see you being in one long relationship.

I don't settle really, do I?

Dylan: And that’s it.

Lily: And we're all like, “Where did they come from?”

Dylan:[Singing] Where did they come from, where did they go?

Lily: I’m sorry, but that person is going to have to fulfill a lot of duties that I do in this relationship.

Dylan: That's also what's true about you and the men that you've been with, because I always get really jealous or I feel very protective.

Lily: You have a hard time.

Dylan: I do.

Lily:[Laughs] Yesterday we were talking about birth and you were like, “You're gonna have to have a baby at the same time I have a baby,” otherwise you'll be jealous.

Dylan: You're gonna love something more than me.

Lily:You'll be crawling into the crib next to it being like, “Mommy.”

Dylan: You look down and it's me in your lap. [Laughs] There’s a stroller that has one side for me and one side for the kid. That’s crazy.

Lily: [Laughs] So what are you currently dreaming of?

Dylan: We were just talking about it, laying naked on the grass, but I’m dreaming about how to cultivate a group of queer people and women and trans folks to make art with all the time. For a long time I was confused why people would always work with the same people, but now I get when you find magic humans that you make good stuff with, then you keep making stuff with them.

I dream of getting to a place in my career and in our lives where what we're doing is just fun and that we’re making meaningful things. I would love to be seen for my advocacy in transness through comedy. Not being painted as this political figure, but being someone that is seen as an active member of the industry. On a larger scale, outside of work, because I think we're so, Lol, capitalism, lol, making it, that I also want that family. I want a house where I can look like Diane Keaton in the garden with grandkids running around. And I want you to have the house next to me.

I want a house where I can look like Diane Keaton in the garden with grandkids running around.

Lily: Where’s it gonna be?

Dylan: London?We’re obsessed. You’re with a Brit right now.

Lily: I think you’re going to end up with a Brit. We were also talking about something earlier today: what people get wrong about us individually, in general. I think that people don't take us that seriously.

Dylan: Yes, there's some really young people in this world doing amazing things. We are two of them, but I think we are so fun. We’re the people that you invite to a party because you know we're going to be the first and the last.

Lily: We have the best time.

Dylan: And we've got a little cleavage. I was gonna say we have heels on, but you famously can't wear them. She’ll put on a tic tac heel and come out with the nastiest blisters of anyone. Before I transitioned I’d be like, “What is this bitch on?” I can run in heels, it feels fine, but I’ve given up on you in that way. I think because we're so fun, people are like, “They can't also write an amazing script,” or, “They're too into their vanity.” Or we're really nice, so some people take advantage of that. We're both hoping to get to a place where we can operate with empathy in our work. But maybe just age and time, like we just have to show them what we’ve got.

Lily: I honestly think the only way that we’re going to do it is just by showing them who we are until someone can’t question it.

Dylan: We’ve been waiting for people to give us our shot, but screw it. We’ll just have to do it ourselves.

Lily: That's my biggest takeaway of the last year and I feel like that's yours too.

Dylan: An astrologer in my bed at my Christmas party was like, “For the rest of your life, you will be making your own shit,” which is exhausting. [Laughs] I just want someone else to put me in something.

Lily: That’s exactly what [our psychic] Colby told me. Every time I’m like, “I want to write on somebody else’s show,” she’s like, “No, you’ll make your own.” That's one thing that did make it into your book, you referenced Colby.

Dylan: Yeah, I talked about our psychic. Well, you know what? We’re woo-woo with shit. We love psychics and that's okay. If that makes us delusional, it's delusional, but she’s real.

Lily: Okay, let's talk about your play. Is there a world where you're gonna bring this show out to the US?

Dylan: I am hoping to do the play later this year. It was called “Fag Hag,” but I don't know if we can call it that.

We’re the people that you invite to a party because you know we're going to be the first and the last.

Lily: That makes me really sad.

Dylan: Because it got lost by all of TikTok. People think of it as a slang term, not only social media platforms, but some people get nervous to say it. Imagine if I was going on a Late Night show and Jimmy Fallon was like [Mumbles in gibberish]. So we're trying to figure out the title and if it's gonna stay or not. But what I do think will stay no matter what is this essence that gender has become so stupidly complicated and that we have to find the funny, and that trans joy can exist in any medium. We haven't seen a lot of it in musicals or on stage.

But I think that I'm realizing I feel a certain responsibility of like, yes, this will be my joy. But also there are a lot of people that maybe didn't know my story or people coming that haven't seen trans storytelling. I want to make sure that they leave feeling some kind of way.

Lily: And also that they had a good time.

Dylan: I want to be able to laugh at how crazy all this is.

Lily: It was really refreshing, as your friend, to finally read something where you have your own narrative.

Dylan: Like so much shit happened with us growing up.

Lily: And it all makes sense. If every person that hated on you read your book, they would understand why you're the way that you are, and I mean really funny and campy, over-the-top. You don't want things to be so serious all the time.

Dylan: No, we're fun.

Lily: What does true friendship look like to you?

Dylan: I think true friendship is telling your best friend that we’re going on a trip 24 hours ahead of time, and forcing her to uproot her life and go off the grid to unplug in a little nudist colony of hot spring bathers. And then while you're there say, “By the way, you have to interview me for a magazine on our one day off, and you also have to read my book before.” What's true friendship to you?

Lily: One thing I love about our friendship, in particular, is that we're really nice to each other. We're really uplifting. Sometimes it's fun to be sarcastic and be a little bitchy, whatever. I think that’s hard when that happens a lot and we don't do that. We're not bitchy to each other.

Dylan: And because we've known each other, I met you when I was 10 years old. Our hearts are still operating out of this pureness. When I first met you you're like, “Wow, I love your Abercrombie sweatshirt.” And I was like, “I love your Abercrombie jeans.” So I think the world around us has become cynical and there's still an innocence about our friendship.

Lily: Yeah, I do still feel like that younger version of myself when I'm with you.

We’ve been waiting for people to give us our shot, but screw it. We’ll just have to do it ourselves.

Dylan: My favorite people are the ones that make me feel like a little kid again. I've met people where they're like, “Oh, I wish we knew each other when we were little,” and we do.

Lily: Exactly, like we really know each other before anything.

Dylan: Would you have ever expected me to do a magazine shoot with my big tits, firecrackers going, blonde with bleached eyebrows?

Lily: Bleached, no.

Dylan: Bleached eyebrows is where you draw the line. [Laughs]

Lily: I think about my favorite photo of us when we were younger, because we looked so sexy. It was super grainy, and we filtered it weird and green, but we took it on a Mac. We were so obsessed with that photo, so to think that now you're doing something as big as PAPER, something that we always looked at when we were younger and have known about, it's such a big deal and it's such a testament to how far you've come. And like, you being your true self: a blonde bitch with big tits.

Dylan: Yeah, but only on off days. Not every day. [Laughs] Can I just say, more than the heels, I gave Lily hell for her blonde hair because she always had roots. I didn't understand that there was a lot of upkeep. I thought that you just went to the hair salon and kept asking for dirty blonde No, your hair was breaking, singing off. But what I will say is, all the things that I gave Lily shit about I'm now going through, and you're like, “Greetings, loved ones.”

Lily: Yes.

Dylan: And so I didn't realize when I decided to go blonde, Lily was like, “Oh girl.”

Lily: Because at first you went all over and you were like, “Look how beautiful I am.” And I'm like, “You look so stunning, but try doing that again, girl.”

Dylan: Yes. And then guess what? My hair started falling out.

Lily: And you always had the thickest head of brunette hair.

Dylan: Now, not as much.

Lily: It's still pretty good.

Dylan: It's relatable to you.

Lily: Now, it's making me feel a little bit better.

Dylan: [Laughs]You just shaved my nipples before this and you watched me get a coffee enema. The next time somebody's like, “So what do you keep private?” I'm like, “Well, ask Lily.”

Lily: Nothing with each other.

Dylan: I can't think of one thing, and I know a lot of people don't have that. I was gonna make a wish for everyone reading, it is that they find someone that can know it all, and that's you for me.

Lily: That's you for me.

Trans joy can exist in any medium.